SPEAKER_01 0:32

Welcome to the Pinkelbury Podcast, where we explore the rise of Vermont soccer through the lens of community, culture, and the game itself, featuring stories from Vermont Clover FC. Join us as we talk with players, coaches, and the people shaping the future of the game in Vermont. Welcome to the Pink and Green Podcast. Nailed it. I'm AJ.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

And I'm definitely Chris.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Rough start, but uh we made it.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

I don't know. I mean, it's a Sunday morning. That's you know, we're easy. It's easy like Sunday morning. What do you got going on today, AJ?

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Uh that's a that's a good question. I don't know what I have going on today. Yesterday we we dipped down to the Addison County Fair in Field Days for a little bit. Uh, and that that was a good time. Um, yeah, how about you?

SPEAKER_04 1:33

That's a field days is kind of right around the corner from me, actually. It's only a couple of minutes. We also visit the fair. We went the first day, girls got the rides, did the whole thing. Demo Derby part one, which was awesome. We watched nice small cars smashing into each other, which is always nice an amazing time. Uh what do I'm back in the 802 for right now, as you can see by my background.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

And I this will probably be the last one of these that we do from the 802 for quite some time.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

We are about, I'm about to go up to Paul Smith for our fall season.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

All right, and and so Paul Smith's is a college in a town, I believe, called Paul Smith. Correct. And it's nestled in the mountains of the Adirondacks. Yeah, Adirondacks. And you're kind of like you're you go to Lake Placid and then you go a little bit further, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:24

Uh yeah, from where we go, so I go across the lake and up, up, I go across over the bridge in Crown Point, and then I go up along the lake. And then from where I go, it's like you go through Lake Placid, then you go through Saranac Lake, and then it's like a little further than that. Okay. And for anyone who's ever driven to places in the north country where it gets all flat, like Potsdam or Canton or any of those towns up there, you are directly across like there's a place that you turn right, it's a T, and that's Paul Smith's. If you just drive straight into the parking lot, that's Paul Smith. It's uh interesting facts about Paul Smiths. It's the largest college campus in the world. It's 14,000 acres.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Holy cow.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Yeah, and the core campus is as you would expect for a small college, you know, it's kind of like right central there. And but the the rest of the acreage is part of originally it was like a wilderness resort kind of thing where they would do like the hunting and the fishing and you know, all that kind of stuff in Adirondacks, and then um it all burned down and they decided they wanted to do it as a college. So that they started doing like tourism and resort management, which as you would expect, right? And then they added forestry because whatever. And now they do all we do all sorts of stuff, but lots, still lots of outdoor sciences, you know, natural resource conservation management, that sort of thing. But a business program that's kind of like really focused on entrepreneur stuff, culinary program, which is very, very good. We have a sports management program, which is really cool. Those are the big ones. Um and you know, there's other ones too, but like those are the kind of big ones. The and if you go on the website, this is my plug for it, and you look at it, it's the student center is like directly on the lake. So there's like a dock that goes effectively like out from the student center. And if you were real stupid and wanted to hurt yourself, you could jump off the deck where you eat lunch into the water and injure yourself. So it's literally on the lake. It's a it's a it's a very I mean I didn't go to school there, but it's a unique place to have a college experience. And you know, just again, talking about what people do and why they go there, regardless of what they want to study, these are all people that like being outside.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

The guys on my team, they want to, you know, they're there, they want to hunt and they want to fish and they want to camp and they want to hike and they want to ski and they want to snowboard because you know, Whiteface is right there. It's 40 minutes away. And they because we have a long-standing relationship with them, our students and staff get screaming deals on um like uh season pass. So my guys will like go skiing all winter long together or snowboarding all winter long together. So they like it's you know, it's the Adirondacks. There's not a lot to do. It's 15 minutes out of town.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Um, well, town proper is like Saranac, and and it is the hamlet of Paul Smith's, and the post office is right in the middle of campus, which is thank basic. But Paul Smith owns so much land, and there has there have since been like they over time they have kind of like chunked some off and sold it here, sold it there, whatever. Yeah, but it's I mean, it's a it's it's big, it's real big. And so the cool thing from an educational perspective, I'm not trying to spend 15 minutes of our podcast just on a monologue about Paul Smith doing the advertising thing. But the cool part is that when the science programs, which are it's it's also very experiential-based learning. So we tend to attract non-traditional learners, right? So kids who don't want to be in a lab doing biology, they want to be outside catching salamanders, right? So, but when you're outside doing stuff, you're almost always doing it on campus because there's this really huge thing. And we work with uh Adirond, actually, the Adirondack Watershed Institute is based on campus. And so if you ever go to the Adirondacks and you see the boat stewards doing like the clean your boat stuff and checking boats and whatever, that program is based at Paul Smith's. Uh-huh. It's really cool. So we do a lot of work with the State of New York on like water quality stuff, and it's awesome. Like it's a really, really cool place. Uh you know, we've done really cool stuff with from a soccer perspective there. But overall, and also Bucheck's an alum. I don't know if you knew this.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:28

Back in the day. Yeah, uh in the 90s, I think, when it was just a two-year school, and it has since become a four-year school.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

And so you you coach there, and you you basically because the it's it's not really a commute that you could make on the on a daily, right? So you you live there for the entire season. Do you come home at all?

SPEAKER_04 6:48

Like, yeah, I have a place on campus. Okay and I'm there, I would say I'm on campus like at night, like probably four days a week. It kind of depends on the week because that's just how this stuff goes. On our off day, we almost always Monday is an off day, and almost always, like it depends on what's going on on Sunday. But if we have a game Saturday and not on Sunday, then we'd probably be off like Sunday and Monday. So I'd be home for those times. So I try to get home when I can, but also the nature of the schedule is that like we have one field, we have lights, and classes are going from you know eight to five, so we have to train at night. So, you know, I'm not trying to get home at eleven o'clock or whatever. No, no, when everybody's asleep, and then the dogs do dog things and wake people up. So usually I'm on campus, like if we're practicing, but there are some days I'll go back and forth depending on what the situation is.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Sure, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:41

It's not awesome being away from being effectively away from your family for a couple of months.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

But I think that I mean they settle into a rhythm and they kind of have their own thing going on. And, you know, we talk every night and or every at least once a day with the girls and Nikki and whatever. So, like, you know, we make it work. We make it work. I I think in an ideal world, Paul Smith would be closer. Sure. You know, because uh like I love Vermont. I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to not be in Vermont, you know, but I really love what we do, and I think it's a really special place. And I think we're just I've said this before, but I'm really proud of the stuff we've been doing with the soccer program. And yeah, I don't want that to go away. But we're also not here to talk about me or Paul Smith. Uncle Paul, as I call him. We have a very special guest today.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

As we always do. Uh today, our guest is someone who's helping shape the next generation of Vermont soccer. Oscar Loomis played his high school soccer career at Burr and Burton Academy before transitioning into coaching. And this year he takes on not one but two exciting roles. He helped lead Vermont Clover's Elite 11 program. Uh, and also I've heard he's becoming the new head coach at Middlebury Union High School. Oscar represents a new generation of coaches focused on player development, building culture, and continuing to grow the game here in Vermont. Oscar, welcome to the Pink and Green Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Thank you. Thank you. Good to meet you guys. Or meet I guess, AJ, we know each other a little bit from uh stand on the sidelines.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah, yeah, I hang around a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, taking photos and whatnot. Uh yeah. I'm also here in the 802 in the heart of Burlington, having a nice, chill, chill morning. My mother-in-law got married yesterday and out in the boonies in uh Brainsby, Vermont. So wow cruise back over here this morning.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Wait, your mother-in-law? I had no idea that you were married or had any significant amount of Oscar. Good for you. Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

Married young, young and in love.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

Good for you. High school sweethearts or like found each other after?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

No, we met we met when I was starting college in Burlington. Uh we've been married for about three years now. Yeah. Eve.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Eve. Where'd you where'd you go to school?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

I went to uh Champlain for a year and then I then I moved to uh Plymouth for another year, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

Uh so you met Eve when you were at Camp Champ? And then did she go to Plymouth or did you guys do the long distance?

SPEAKER_00 10:07

No, it took a year off, came back, saw each met each other again, kicked it off from there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

That's cool. Love Springs Eternal, right? It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Right?

SPEAKER_04 10:17

This is we're already learning things about each other. How many conversations have we had and like this didn't come up?

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

I uh I think we should start with Hike how Oscar got involved with Clover et al. which was really simple. Like excellent.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

That was that was a question on my list. So let's really oh great.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Yeah, so Oscar, you want to tell him? Actually, I'll tell him. They he sent me a message and was like, hey, I'd like to be involved and like how help learn to do this coaching thing. And I was like, Yeah, sure. But my question always is, and this was the same thing I asked you, HA, is like what prompts a person to just send some random stranger a message and say, I want to be a part of this thing that I don't really know anything about.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

I feel Vermont's been missing that sort of like homegrown soccer culture for a long time. It was really cool when the green started a couple years ago. Uh I was really interested in that. I might try it out, but you know, I'm old, the legs don't work like they used to, but it was cool to just see like the culture growing, and then you know, as they they sort of kind of I feel like they strayed away a little bit from like the homegrown spirit of it. So when Clovers popped up, I remember being on Instagram and I see this post from uh the the league, and it was like new new team alert, Vermont Clovers, and I'm like, What? I opened the page, you guys have like a hundred followers. I'm like, what what is this? So I remember seeing it as as you were posting announcements for people joining, like players and coaching staff, and I just followed it all the way through. And finally, I moved, I was living down in southern Vermont with my mom, and I moved back up to Burlington. I was like, you know what? Long shot, but might as well just shoot an email over because it's like a real I thought it was a really, really cool prospect and a really cool thing that you guys had going on. I was like, probably won't answer. Like I've applied to a million soccer jobs and no one ever answers them. Shot an email over, and to my surprise, like a week later, I get an email back from Chris, like, hey, here's my number, give me a call this week. And it kind of just kicked off from there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

That's uh that's AJ had a similar experience, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:02

It's like very similar, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

Give me a call. And then we talk. What's important to me with bringing people around is not necessarily the exact skill set you have or experience you have or whatever, but like your like the the alignment of your heart to what we're doing. And not I'm so into the project, but like, is it gonna be a good match with who we are and what we do? And like, do you believe in the same things that we believe in? You know, uh from a coaching perspective. When I talk to Brian, like, yeah, like we could have this guy do anything. He's like, Yeah, bring him around, let's see. It's kind of like his that's his approach.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

It's like, yeah, let's bring it I'll chase balls if you need me to. Like, I just wanted to be involved.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Yeah, and how's that and how's the experience been? Like, what have you what have you what's a thing or things that you may have learned throughout this?

SPEAKER_00 13:46

It's been awesome, just like being around Brian and Al and Lou and all those guys, and just like seeing how they run seeing how they run trainings, like what they focus on, uh what they focus on wanting their players to do and having clear ideas of what each role should be. You know, being at games, just the atmosphere, it's like it's it's I w it's like something that I've never really been a part of before. Yeah, it's uh and just you know, seeing how um seeing how like invested everyone is in something that like just so new, it's just starting up and they're just on it from the get-go. It's been amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Because I gotta ask you, uh, this just kind of popped into my head. We're we're on guest, like this this is like the you know, 13, 14, 15 show that we've done, and there's been this consistent kind of message from the guests that like you know, seeing what Clover's doing, it's really unique, it's really cool. Like where where does that land for for you, right? Like, is this is what you're hearing like the original intent of everything? Like, is anything in this shocking you?

SPEAKER_04 14:57

No, I mean I I think it's the original intent, but when you have anything when you when you're when your intent breathes a thing into the world, it doesn't necessarily mean that that's how the world receives it, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Right right, exactly. Yeah, that's that's sick.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

I really appreciate the positive confirmation bias is what's going on here. So, like my thought is we're doing this awesome thing and you know, we're creating more opportunities for and and as again for the people that have been listening to this consistently. When I say more opportunities, I don't just mean playing, I mean for coaches, for you know, all the things, right? Like learning how to do professional things, whatever, creating all those opportunities. But to hear somebody say, Yeah, this is really cool, and this was a great opportunity, and I'm glad it existed, it, you know, it's a my heart is already full of gladness most of the time, but it like you know adds a little more gladness to be in there when like sounds like Oscar had a great experience, sounds like he might have learned a little thing, so you know, and maybe that helped him like move forward with what he wants to do and what his passions are. And like again, if you touch one person, that's success. Like sure, you know, the human enhancements project is you know, like I didn't think it was gonna be a human experience enhancement project, but like uh it is, and that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah, exactly. Uh Oscar, I want to go back and kind of talk about your your soccer career. So, so let's let's start there. How do you you get into soccer? Where where'd you play? What'd you do? What position?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, I got in I actually got into soccer pretty late. I think I was like 12 or 13 when I first like joined the team, and I was just you know, my mom wanted me to get out of the house, stop playing video games. So I went, I joined like my local club, uh Fusion back in the day. It was uh, you know, it was just like my friend's super Catholic mom was the coach, and it was all super grassroots. Um yeah, I just like fell in love with it, and I like I couldn't get enough of it. I started started playing like during the school season. Um I went to this tiny little school called Long Trail down in southern Vermont for my middle school. It's like an alternative. I think there's like 150 kids, like all the way from sixth grade through 12th grade. Tiny school. Um but it was just like a great I had so much community around me from like I'm from a small like farm town in southern Vermont, like there's no kids my age at all. So being around other people and just being able to to like convene together and have like something to do together all the time, I loved it. So I played middle school when I was when I was um in eighth grade in middle school the varsity coach had me come try out with them at the beginning of the year, and I got to play varsity my uh eighth grade year of of uh middle school, and that's when it really for me was like this is something I can like do, like this is something really important for me. So I remember I was going through the youth ranks, I played Fusion, I played with uh John O'Connor at Summit. That was an awesome experience. I love that guy. Yep. Um and then I did the ODP system and like going to the camps in New Jersey and the you know the tournaments and stuff. It was just it was so exciting like for a kid, like being able to feel like it feels like you're on the like the national team for your for your for your uh state. So it was just an awesome experience, yeah. And then I kind of fell out of the game after college, like uh COVID happened, I was injured, my body wasn't holding up, so I I was out of it for a couple years. And then uh my old neighbor from from uh from Rupert, the little town, was a coach at Long Trail, and he was he was moving on to go coach a college in Massachusetts, and he hit me up. He's like, Hey, would you have any interest in coaching soccer this this fall? And I was like, Yeah, I got nothing going on. You know, I paint houses for a living, like I don't have much to do. So I showed up, did the tryouts, got my team. Uh yeah, to just from like the first week of coaching, like seeing how the kids react and how much fun they have, like totally brought me back into the game. Like, totally fell in love with it again. The season was awesome. We had all sorts of ups and downs. We weren't that good. Like it's a it's an alternative school. There's not you know a huge player pool to pick from, but they're all we're know, we're like sixth and seventh graders, they're like four and a half feet tall, and we're playing against eighth graders or you know, taller than me. Just gonna smash around the pitch. But uh yeah, just like trying to find ways to work around that with them was awesome. Um and yeah, the season ended. We had our whole like end of the season, end of the season party, like please, please come back next year. It's like I can't wait to see you guys. And then things changed. I moved to Burlington um and started with the Clovers. And it's actually really funny. Uh, when we went and played that that like scrimmage charity game at Applejack this year against the uh was it the fusion what was their name? The fusion legends or something.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

I just made that up. I mean, but yeah, it's a bunch of guys that fusion come together, the fusion legend all-stars is what I called it.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Um we played that game. I got drafted into play because we were low on numbers. I don't think I had my greatest performance on the pitch, but I we got done with the game, and I hear like footsteps coming up with on me, and it's a bunch of my my kids from Long Trail and they run up on me with their cameras out, and they're like trying to give make me do a post-game interview, and they're like talking about hey, how did you think you performed? Um and they're like, I was like, Oh guys, like come on, I gotta talk to the team. They're like, please come back this year, please come back.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I'm like, guys, I can't, I'm sorry. Like, just promise you will. It's just it's amazing to like see like the impact you could have on like people who are like in their formative years, yeah. I just I love it. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Yeah, similar story like to mine, you know. It's just like I'm not doing anything, of course I'll do that, right? As it just is a general attitude about when somebody asks you to do a thing, I'm not doing something, of course I'll do that, right? Like, why not? And it's like when someone's thinking about you for a thing like that, like that's like there's a massive, like, I feel like a massive debt out to the universe when someone's thinking about me to do this thing that's really cool. Yeah, like go coach a team, right? Um, how so the Middlebury thing that happened not too long ago? So what do you see? What do you see like day one? Like, how do you wanna how you how like how are you approaching that day one?

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Yeah, uh well, I know I was talking, I've been talking to the kids on the sports heal, and um a lot of them are concerned about if they are on the varsity team already that they still have to try out, and like 100% this is a new start, this is merit-based. Um if you're good enough to make the team, you'll make it. And if you're kind of coasting along from before, you're gonna have to earn it. So it's gonna be I'm gonna be have to be a little tough on them right at from the beginning, just get them kicked in the gear. But uh yeah, it's gonna be good. We're gonna be doing a lot of just we're gonna do a little bit of fitness at the beginning because I know it's the summer. Uh I doubt everyone's been training super hard. They have been having uh captains practices for a few months just to keep a lot of the dudes who are really into it in shape, so that's gonna be a huge boost for them at least. Um but I'm gonna just be doing a lot of like playing. I I want to see how they play in games and like simulated games, scrimmages. Uh, I just want to see how they think like if they see the game the right way, if they if they are technical enough to play the game the right way. And then once we get in once we get through once we get through the it's gonna be a tough beginning. for them. There's going to be a lot of running, a lot of working, but then uh then we'll get into the tactics and the season ahead of us because I just want to get our I want to get I want to see who can who's going to be a good fit for the for the roles they're going to be playing this year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Can we uh I I just have to ask I'd so so like step back a second. Is is the coaching job at Middlebury is that now the full-time job?

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Uh no so you know I got I got a I got rent to pay so I uh I'm I'm a painter from during my day job. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

So I start starting so coaching is still like an evening part-time thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

I mean it's my passion like this it's that or any it's that or nothing else. Sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

No no I'm I'm just trying to understand like how does Middleberry handle that because I I think some coaches you know and it depends on on the budgets and stuff like that. But I think you know some coach maybe maybe they're just already on staff at schools and stuff like that. So I was just wondering like uh you know it is this your full-time job or not and it's not okay. Um how did you get the job?

SPEAKER_04 24:01

How like talk to me about the the interview process right like you see this opportunity pop up was it like a recommendation did you apply for it uh and then what what's it like to to navigate through that that process is yeah definitely a massive recommendation from Chris I think I had just gotten home from a Elite 11 game and he hits me up and he's like hey do you have any interest in coaching the middlebury high school team and I was like yes absolutely um so he he he sent me over Sean's number sent him a massive recommendation for me and uh yeah I got a I got an interview time with with Sean we went in I went in uh uh Anon and Oliver were the two captains who are in there for the meeting because you know they've had some they've had some rough years they wanted to get a good idea of who their coach coming in would be and what their ideas were so we went over a lot of things like you know tactics uh how I want them to play what I want them to play in terms of style um you know expectations for the season not setting them too high or too low um you know technical things like working with parents to uh to you know make sure that we're creating a good environment not like I was saying earlier before we started about referees trying to trying to work our way back onto their good side um yeah it was really good it was like an hour and a half long meeting um super hot no ac in the building though so everybody was sweating but it was yeah it was great it was really I think I think we came to some really good agreements and uh yeah they gave me a call about a week later after confirmation from the principal um yeah it's just kind of been kicking starting up since then like whipping in the gear uh we had our you know meeting the other day I met an entirely new coaching staff the JV JV assistant head coach for varsity me and uh varsity our varsity assistant full new coaching staff but um all the people there are really great there they you know gave us gave us some recommendations and told us you know anything you need come to us that so it's a good it's a good group over there and you know the football coaches are there too but yeah yeah if there's um you know give give me the answer as if a parent of of one of your players is listening right like what's what's uh what's your coaching style like how would you describe your coaching style for for them yeah I want to give the players freedom to do what they can do but in a system that's going to be successful for the whole team yeah yeah awesome yeah I just for some background on a couple of things we just went to so the Sean he's talking about that's Sean Farrell he's the director of I think his title is director of activities or and athletics maybe or maybe not athletics but he he does a lot of the he does all a lot of the hiring stuff and I I lived down right near Middlebury and I coached at Middlebury previously and so I you know I know Sean pretty well and worked for him and when the job came open I I'm really invested in the success of of Middlebury soccer because I still have relationships in town and you know with some of those players and I want to try to connect talented people to jobs that I care about. Right. So you know I see a lot of talent in Oscar and and so when I you know encouraged him to apply and then sent Sean a message it was it's like you should check this guy out and then you know from there it's it's on Oscar right like to do the thing and and all that stuff. But I'm really glad that it is going to work out because I think that I think there's going to be really great things happening um to your part about the full-time thing with high school there's no full-time high school jobs in Vermont and that might be everywhere but nowhere correct so the ones that are full time at the ones that like are coaching at school that work at the school full time those are like you're a teacher and so the girls coach at uh Middlebury high school his name is Reeves Livesse he's a he's a math teacher and he coaches the team you know and they give you a little stipend. Middlebury pays pretty well in the grand scheme of um in the grand scheme of like what coaches get paid it the head coaching positions are paid pretty well as compared to you know some other smaller schools but it's still like you know it's a stipend for the fall and you definitely can't live on it. It's not like that.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

And there are very few that this stipend is even very substantial. Then I would say the few that have a substantial stipend are like the big Chitt county schools.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

You know but they're good jobs. Like they don't pay nothing and they'll you know they cover your costs to get from here to there and it's nothing hits quite like high school soccer. Like high school soccer is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Like just there's an aura in high school yeah I mean club is like no one cares.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

Like I mean not no one cares. It's a big deal you want to win the games but at the end of the season you're like okay you won the club thing and so did these 20 other teams but at high school it's like winning matters right like you score a lot of goals you get to go up on the wall right like you got you got you got you got a lot of kids who don't even they don't know anything about soccer.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

They don't care about it. They're just excited to be out there yelling so yeah yeah there's an atmosphere.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

Yeah and also the vibe in the team is like there are some kids there that aren't super serious about soccer. They want to do their best but like they're in it for like the activity of it all and to be with friends and to try to go win a thing for the pride of the town and you know it's it's a whole it's a whole awesome thing. It's a whole awesome thing. We're coming right up on preseason now starts so we're recording this on Sunday the ninth and preseason starts on Thursday the 13th lucky 13 right yep 13th yep you got any uh special first day plans with them oh yeah uh starting off with a with a six minute mile maybe we'll maybe we'd maybe we'll do a 12 minute two mile depending on how in shape people look um pill sprints they're gonna love it no we'll do we'll do some light fitness or medium fitness I want to see but yeah then we're gonna be getting straight into just seeing what you can do yeah a lot of playing we're gonna do a lot of play in over the first couple days yeah that that's always fun for players especially coming in and to be able to set that standard i most coaches can say like okay this is like a hallmark of my teams like what's a hallmark of an Oscar team oh i like i like to be able to just make the opponent not want to have the ball like be scared that there's going to be people coming to take the take that ball from them so taking the ball and just getting after them like I don't want my players I don't like when my players get in front of someone in a 1v1 and slow down and like see if they should go backwards or or slow down the play I want them running at people and I don't mean just like doing it in like a sloppy like kicking the ball down the field chasing after it I want I want people with the ball on their feet comfortable with it going at someone making a pass through I like having runners come from deeper positions and get in behind so you can find passes in just relentless. I like it to be relentless yeah I think that's a good way to describe it yeah I like that that's cool that'll that'll fit right in with what I know about the culture of the boys in the team too they're gonna really they're gonna really like they're gonna really take to that I think the relentless nature just trying to put teams under pressure and make them uncomfortable man that's if you can do that you're winning most of the time what does uh you know it's it's your first season uh as coach here so what does success look like for you success is you know I want to I want to be in games I want to be I don't want to be getting you know knocked around by four or five goals and I want players to be having good performances like me personally I hate losing so if I could go in I I know this isn't realistic but going going without losing would be a dream for me I like this at least as long as we're in games and we're we're putting opponents under pressure and we're making them uncomfortable um that's successful for me and if the kids if the kids are enjoying their game and they're they're liking their play and we're scoring goals that's fine with me yeah but obviously I like to win.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

I hate losing and I love winning.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

So yeah the more we win the happier I'll be yeah I I mean everybody will be right like winning especially if you do it consistently can like it gives you all the feel goods and you don't have to struggle through season as much one of the things that the way that I always phrase this the same thing you just said the way I always phrase it is the goal in every game is to be in a position to win it at the end of the game right which is to say like okay sometimes you're up by a few and you're gonna win it and other times it's close at the end. And then you know maybe you win or maybe you don't but success isn't necessarily the winning or the losing it's the being there to be able to make a play to win a game is kind of the success right because you can't teach you can't teach exactly like okay I'm gonna make the play to win it but what you can teach is how to get to be able to make the play. So that's the that's the way I like to think about that stuff. And like you know end of season happens like all the teams make the playoffs or almost all the teams make the playoffs and you have a decent season maybe surprise a person or two and you know go down in the you go down in the book as a legend first year in maybe you win the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

That's the dream that would be the dream yeah it's possible it'd make you a better coach than me man I can never get past the semifinal when I was there we'll get there we'll get there it's true so outside of like wins and losses and and and all that that stuff though what what would make you you know proud at the end of the season proud let's see I think to make I think to be proud at the end of the season um is just seeing like the the development from the kids like I know not all of them are finished projects most of them all of them are finished projects especially at that age yeah yeah yeah yeah so just seeing seeing if they can develop to like being 30 or 50% better than they were when we started and seeing if we can build a platform to like work off for the next years I would think I think if they could just show me that they're improving and they're still in love with the game and they're having a they're having a good season and a good time that would that would make me proud.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

Yeah awesome I love that my question is you know as a as a as a younger guy I mean not that you're fresh off the fresh out the womb but like as a younger guy you know in his first kind of high school level head coaching experience how you know what's your approach to working you mentioned earlier working with the parents a little bit what's your approach to kind of just building not just the culture inside the team but building the whole culture around the program um see that's see this is something I'm less experienced in so I'm gonna have to be learning that as I go but I think really just uh just making sure they feel involved like not shut out like if they need to talk to me they can talk to me if they need something for me I'll do my best to give it to them I remember I have a little anecdote from from my middle school season last year. We were playing against uh some Christian school from from Rutland you know middle school uh they they come down the head coach is like friends kind of with our AD we're all very friendly at the beginning of the game um I think we're we're winning about 3-1 in the second half is our homecoming game for uh the middle school and the head coach on the other side she's just screaming she's screaming at her poor players like her daughters on the team just like screaming at them screaming at the ref I remember finally my wife was sitting on the bench behind me and she's like Oscar she's supposed to be doing that and I look over she's in my technical box screaming at the referee and I'm like I like asked her I'm like hey can you can you go back to your side of the field for me please she's like oh okay Oscar I see what kind of person you are runs back to her side screaming at me now screaming with the referee players ref finally stops the game gives her a yellow card he's like listen you can't be doing that finally starts the game back up she starts screaming at him again she he comes over again sends her off makes her leave the field she walks around the outside of the pitch yell yell yell and all the parents on their side are yelling like it is like I said it was alternative school all but all the parents on my side are very timid they're like they don't like to yell they don't like to get too rowdy but this school they are just screaming at everybody we play for maybe three more minutes she comes sprinting back around the edge of the pitch to scream at the ref and her players again ref stops picks the ball up takes it says game's over he's you know he's been out in the sun for five hours coach at home or ref at home coming games and they just blow up like they completely blow up so I get my players around they're like Oscar did we win like I think so buddy let's have let's go shake hands everybody shake hands with the other team you know talk to the talk to their assistant coach and he's like I don't I don't know but it was like a horrible blow up like these poor kids it's it's their homecoming game they just want to be out there playing the whole other team's crying so I'm like talking to them like listen guys it's okay this happens sometimes she's always like this um but the the point of this sorry that was a long tangent but the point of this is that you know I had parents coming over to me after the game like thank you for handling it that way like not not getting like involved in her screaming match not not like blowing this completely out of proportion and I think I got maybe like the entire team all of the parents like came over like thank you so much for not making this like worse than it was I'm like I it's you know it's youth soccer I'm just trying to like have a good environment for these kids to play in and I know that even if there's outside forces like the other team trying to you know make it chaotic and make it unfun for the kids it's like you just got to keep it in control like stay calm stay composed and like keep keep everybody in a happy mood because it's a it's you know it's a sport it's a game at the end of the day you're out there to have fun especially at this level so I think just just yeah trying to make sure everyone's still enjoying themselves is an important part to a certain extent yeah yeah you play a game which implies fun right so like this is what it should be like yeah yeah my type two fun experience is you're not gonna have fun in every single moment but at the end of the thing when you walk off the field there you're like yeah I had a good time right type two fun type one fun puppy dogs and ice cream everybody loves those type two fun did we have a good time doing this now that it's all over right they I like that story is like I unfortunately it's like all too common that there's an adult who may be the coach maybe not who needs to be in that space and for whatever reason their own they feel like they need the space to be a certain way and it's just really not conducive to to kids having fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

You know and and you know bravo to you for handling it like the irresponsible adult yeah just don't have to engage in it like there's just a negative energy from somewhere that you don't need to you don't need to like help foster it. So I'm not gonna like scream at this poor poor woman who's screaming at everybody else. Like that's not gonna make it any better.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Same thing with reps like I'm not gonna scream at a ref for making a bad call he's trying his best probably out there it's gonna make it worse for myself yeah probably they definitely are we had our last guest and it'll actually air after this one our last guest was was a referee and he was talking about like one of the things we talked about was like everybody's out there just doing their best you know like like they don't need to I'll tell you what makes me better at things especially when I'm like typing on my keyboard you know if somebody's behind me screaming at me that I got it wrong like that definitely makes me so much better at that you know maybe I'm one of those rare people no I'm joking that's not at all that was very sarcastic. Big encouragement so what is okay so we talked a little bit about outside the field how do you what's your approach to culture building outside looking in if I'm watching your team not play but like conduct themselves like what kind of what kind of culture are you trying to build inside the team just a one that like each other I want them to to like feel comfortable doing whatever they need to do together.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Um team building is always important doing like I know I know everyone hates team building but doing like the little icebreakers and like stupid little games during like we have like a a a practice the day before a game like we're not gonna be out there running suicides but we'll do little team break tea like team building exercises you know um and just making sure that because if you if you are comfortable with each other off of the field you're going to be even more comfortable with each other on the field. So building the chemistry with each other um making players know that they have each other's backs like if you if you're out there and you're having a bad game someone is going to be able to cover you and it's not going to be like a a a drag to you it's gonna be because that they're your teammate and they want success and they want you to succeed and they want themselves to succeed. So just building a culture where everyone wants to be you know working for each other and with each other is really really important to to having a successful team. So just having having them having them be comfortable with each other is important.

SPEAKER_04 43:06

Yeah yeah that's that's I mean I think that's the core of a good culture right and and also the challenge with high school right is that they have known each other most of their lives. So they come into it with like sometimes there's walls that really need to be broken down but existing yeah yeah and sometimes and that can be sports related it can be not sports related you know this guy could be like talking to this guy's girlfriend over here like you just don't like you just don't know all the history that's you know that that's in there. So I again I think that that's one of the I think that's one of the really fun challenges is to be able to get all all the horses pulling in the same direction even if you know they're all they're all not necessarily um yeah I think that the team building stuff I think people like it. I think they pretend not to right but I think that they actually do enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Like the human the human not may sound stupid but then when you do it like how many smiles are happening and how many people are laughing exactly yeah when it's over right you know you tell them what they're doing they're like oh man I don't want to do that and then you know you actually start doing it and they're all having a great time.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

So yeah every single time I've done that in the corporate world right like starting a new job or like we had to go through a a boot camp here uh where I I work it was it's like part partial online and then in person uh at the headquarters for like a week and and it's always one of those things like oh we're gonna do some icebreakers like son of a but then you start doing like oh this is fun and it turns out like I don't like I got some stuff in common with this other person over here. Yeah you learn something about them.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

Yeah yeah yeah yeah my resistance to all of them is that there's like no challenge truly in it they're like oh yeah it's a it's a lot of easy like there's nothing that you have to be like to be successful to solve the human not there isn't a whole lot of resilience required. So you don't really as an athlete you don't really learn a whole lot about a teammate from doing something like that right because what you gotta learn is how you're gonna react and respond when like you got to solve these challenging problems and even during the times you go down by you go to you go to a down by two early in a semifinal game like what are you going to do? You can't learn that from that stuff. And so so some of the people that I do leadership training with and I are like we're trying to figure out how we can like kind of solve for that so that in like the team building stuff we can get like a lot of challenge in it to really kind of build the like Build the muscle, if that makes any sense. And and I have not come up with any solution. These are much smarter people than me, so hopefully they'll come up with something.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Uh Oscar, what are some um things throughout your soccer career that have influenced your style of coaching? Was it like coaches? Was it you know experiences that have happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 45:47

I have some positives and some negatives actually. Um yeah, so positive. Actually, working with when I was playing for John uh or O'Connor for uh the summit team, like he was, you know, he was hard on you, but he was always also you know very personable. Like if you needed to ask him something, he'll tell you, and he won't make you feel like an idiot for asking him. It was really, really helpful in that way. Um so yeah, playing playing for him, I always had a really, really good time. And he was he was great about giving like opportunities to players who wouldn't usually be like starting in the first 11 or or players who are maybe on the fringes more. He was good at making them feel like they're still part of the team and and getting them like involved in all the practices. Um I have a negative when I was I don't know if it's chance. So when I was when I was a senior in in high school, I remember me and my coach worked close for like most of my career there on my on the varsity team. We have problems. I was I was a little stuck up. I was you know, I was a 17-year-old and I was good, so I was I was stuck up. So but he had he had problems with that, which I get. But I remember I got a bad test grade, I think, the day before our playoff game. And I don't think I took it well, and I I think I I I had an email exchange with the teacher, like I need to play this game, like um, and he dropped me not just from the from the team, but from the entire squad. I had to stand on the sidelines from for the entire game and watch my team lose to Brattleboro, which was so painful. Um but he the way that he the way that he did it, I remember had an impact on me. He was very like unforgiving and uh just kind of rude to me about it. And I was like, I if I'm ever a coach, like I don't want my players to feel that way about me. Like I can if if they have to get dropped for like grades or something, I get it. But you can be like nice about it. Like you can you can be understanding, be forgiving.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Um so I just I I learned from that and just like I don't ever want to coach that way. I want to I want my players to feel comfortable and like not feel scared of me and not feel like at any moment I could like snap and right mess with their careers, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:25

A place of psychological safety. This is the thing that keeps coming up, like comfortable with each other, playing for each other, not like a coach feeling like wanting to feel respected even in those difficult conversations. Like the thing that keeps coming up, like the fancy word for that is you want to create an environment of psychological safety. Like over and over and over, you keep saying that same thing. Or guys are excited to show up, they feel like they're gonna be accepted, and they feel like, and you know, again, it keeps coming up the river. They they're gonna be relevant, they're gonna be important, they're gonna be valued, they're gonna be empowered, and they're gonna be respected. And that's the environment over and over and over. You're using different words, but you're saying exactly the same thing. So it's like, again, why I know you're gonna be awesome at this, right? That's why I know it.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

Yeah. If you can let somebody be vulnerable and respected, it builds that trust, right? Like they they feel like they're safe in that environment. And the more trust you build, the more effort they're gonna want to put in towards the common goal.

SPEAKER_04 49:22

Yeah, it's gotta be you gotta be safe to make mistakes. Like, and I don't mean a pass that was the wrong pass or a pass that you flubbed, but like as a human being, you gotta feel safe to like fail that test and not be like, okay, you may not be able to play. You may have to stand there, you may even have to the situation could be exactly the same as far as what you have to do and watch the game from the other side, but how that's handled is like that's what matters, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Uh Oscar, in your in your mind, uh, what makes Vermont soccer so unique?

SPEAKER_00 49:53

I think it's just a I think it's a little like secluded. It's a secluded place. Um we get, I mean, at least my cur my high school teams and the ones we play against, we would we'd play like there'd maybe be like one or two foreign exchange students on each team, like, or like kids who weren't really from Vermont. It's like a it's a lot of homegrown players in Vermont. Um and you know, I think for a while there weren't a lot of pathways for those players, but I think in the last like you know, five five-ish years, there's more pathways, especially with Clovers. There's more paths for those players now to like go on and continue their career after high school or play in college and and find ways to keep playing the game. There's lots of teams popping up around the state, um for for you know, boys and girls. Um but I think just the culture and it being such a small state, like if you're playing on like a club team, you're gonna know you know 30% of the dudes on the other team just from like being in the circuit. So since there's it's such like a smaller pool of players with frankly, there's a lot of talent for being such a small small pool and knowing all each other, it's like a it's like it almost feels like a huge community of players. Like everyone, if you don't know someone, you know someone who knows this person, like yeah. There's always a connection somehow in Vermont. I think that's really cool for especially for the game, yeah. For being in the sport.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Sure, sure. Um as much as Vermont soccer has grown in the past you know five five, ten years, where where do you see there's still opportunities for growth?

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Um I think just more opportunities for players who can't afford to play for some of these club teams, or if there's if there's funding to maybe bring players on who are from you know lower brackets and and poorer families and giving them ways to play. I I know a lot of I know so many players in Vermont who were like elite talents better than like anyone in their school, but they're just you know they're from much poorer families and they can't afford to like play out of season, not during high school. Like they sure did it's not in their budget. So I think a lot of them could have been, you know, really great talents, played in college, played and all that sort of stuff, but they just didn't have the exposure and the opportunities that a lot of other players did have, even if they weren't, you know, necessarily as talented or hardworking as as these players, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, club soccer is not cheap. It's not not cheap at all. I mean, I I know it we have our son play play club soccer, but it's it's a great opportunity, but it's you know, I I guess I forget that it's one that not every player is afforded.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

So yeah, it's it's about access paths, right? So like and the clubs, all the clubs that I know work really hard to be able to make what they do accessible to you know, the people that do it, but there's only so much they can do, right? Because it costs what it costs and you gotta and and there's only so many, there's only so many dollars floating around out there to to support all of it. And the other thing too is we talk a lot about like financial access stuff, but Vermont is a largely rural state. So most of the so the access paths are mostly available for the kids in Chittenden County, especially the core Chittenden County players. Like, you know, the kids from the kids with like less means from Winooski or Burlington or whatever, like the clubs have worked really hard to get them opportunities and they do a really great job with it just generally. Not that not that everybody gets in there, there are plenty of people still missed. But when you start talking about Rupert, Vermont, right? Like it's a different or up in the Northeast Kingdom, like near St. Johnsbury, right? Caledonia Flood, like they try to get all these kids in, but they and it it's not just okay, it costs money, it's like, how do I this is a this is an hour and 20 minute ride each direction over Hill and Dale. And last but not least, so it's three things, like so it's so it's location and the rural player, right? It's the money thing, also, because things cost money to do, enter leagues, buy uniforms, you know, whatever. And if again, let's say you're a a a farm family, there isn't a lot of money floating around, right? There just isn't. And then the third thing is like access of teams, like physical teams, like there just aren't enough coaches. And and so like we rely on a lot of volunteers, which is really great, but there just aren't enough coaches. So I think our responsibility as as leaders in the game is to try to get more coaches involved because every coach that you have that is now you know experienced and has the right things in their mind about it, like that's a dozen more kids at minimum that could be playing. And where there's a will, there's a way. If you're a coach and you want to do it, you'll figure out how to get a team together. You'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Well, what's I I feel like I've kind of heard you guys talk about this in the past, but like is there uh a certification program for coaches? Like, you know, are are you just volunteering because you know how to do this, you know how to play the game, you know how to like lead a group of guys? Like what do you think the the barrier is of why like is there a barrier to entry? Is there something difficult about being a coach that why don't why don't we have more coaches?

SPEAKER_04 55:49

Uh it's a couple things, I think. Um first of all, the times that it happens. Like you think about school, that happens right after school. Like so 3:30, 4 o'clock is when you start. People work till five. So that's one. Second, playing and coaching, I don't there's not a direct translation because coaching and teaching a thing and building the culture thing is different than showing up to play, right? So there's always going to be that kind of gap. There are certification programs, right? There's actually a couple different ways you can do it. U.S. Soccer does it. There's a thing called United Soccer Coaches, and even the high schools have a a different thing that you could kind of like go through and do that stuff. So you can get certified and you can learn the basics of like group dynamics and team management, but I think it's really intimidating for a lot of people. And I think they do other stuff and they have other hobbies. And, you know, instead of dedicate uh look, we get paid for this stuff. Like you get paid to coach the high school, but to a large degree, like if you do the math on how much you get paid hourly, you are donating your time.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Oh, sure. Right.

SPEAKER_04 56:50

So like it's a massive time suck. And the other thing about this is, and this is not I'm not not knocking the families, but it's not easy because you're not always getting it right. Like you're making decisions that you know a family disagrees with, or you know, whatever, not not through any bad action. You get it wrong because you're a human being, and you know, and so like you have to there is a thing, and I think that I think that people are sometimes hesitant to get into it because of all the stuff that isn't about the on-the-field stuff. And I say this all the time. You hear me say this a million times. The on-the-field stuff is easy, it's also the smallest part of the job. Whereas the hard stuff, the hard part where you're spending all your time and energy and effort, it's everything off the field, the managing of the full group, you know, the competition stuff, the travel stuff, the managing the parental expectations. And then there are some of us who are sick-os and we can't stay away, as Ostra described himself as. I use the word sicko, but then the bug, but the bug bites you. So it's about creating more opportunities for people to get bitten. And even if you coach for three, four, five years while your kid's playing at the rec department, like that's a massive win because that's one team the rec department could do that they might not have been able to do.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it happens every year. So, like we just signed uh, you know, Tim up for fall rec travel. And, you know, sure enough, they're putting out a plea. Like, we need coaches. Like, you know, we thank you for signing your kid up, but now, you know, we don't know if we can create these opportunities because we still don't have coaches and it's like the 11th hour.

SPEAKER_04 58:17

I I also think a thing that people think is that they need to know soccer to be a decent coach. And you don't, not really. Like, you gotta know the rules, but like you can find all the drills online, but what you really need to do is like want to work with kids and have an idea of like what does a good experience look like so that like at the end of the day, success, like big picture, especially for little kids. Success is them wanting to show up every time. And they leave and they're like, I can't wait until next time. Right. I had fun. Like, that is what success looks like. You don't have to know anything about soccer to be able to create an environment where a kid is showing up and having a good time. You know, you can run around and chase butterflies the entire time at soccer practice with a ball. They might not be getting any better at soccer, but they're having a good time and they want to come back.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:04

Yeah. I think that those I mean, what do you think, Oscar?

SPEAKER_02 59:09

That's faced out.

SPEAKER_00 59:12

I was thinking about drills. You you said something about about drills or practice, and I was thinking about drills. Oh about about coaches. Um yeah, I mean I'm I'm still new to it, but I think just just wanting to be doing something and like not even just just being helpful. Like you're you're creating something for you know players to be able to do and take like take away some of that free time that they might not know what to do with. Uh and just giving kids an outlet to uh to you know express themselves. I think that's one of the huge things about soccer is that it's such an expressive game. Like there's so many different ways you can play like individually and as a team. So giving these kids like a way to express themselves out on the field, it's almost like being like an art teacher. Like you give them a pencil and a piece of paper, and you tell them like a maybe a shape they can draw, and there's a million different ways they can draw that shape. So being just out there and giving the kids a little bit of instruction and then letting them like work, show themselves on the field, I think is a really important part being a coach.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

In a in a world where there's not enough people doing the coaching thing, what keeps you coming back to it? Why do you want to keep doing it?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

I mean, me for me personally, I just love the sport and I love being around it, but I think every coach has their own reason why they do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Like some people want to like they have free time to kill, some people just really like working with kids, some people um you know feel they get like gratification from like teaching something. Um me personally, I like I I feel all those things, and I also I just being able to work in a field that I love that like it doesn't feel like I'm working is important to me since you know I have lots of other jobs where it definitely feels like I'm working. So um just having a like an avenue to like express myself and help other people express themselves. Yeah, that's for me personally. That's that's why I keep coming back. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of different reasons why people why coaches would do it. And I think if more people realize that that was there, there would be more coaches. I think a lot of people don't realize that um they can do it. Like they think they need to be like 15 years into the game and coached, you know, high or college or semi-pro to be out there coaching like a high school team. Like you if you have the tenacity and like the determination, like you can do it. So I think just helping people realize that that that those those opportunities can be there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

I I think coaching at the high school level, they're probably gonna want a seasoned coach, somebody who has ever done it before, but you know, for those wreck opportunities, just a willingness to you know be there for the kids, create the culture, give them opportunities to play, have fun, learn. The bar is is much lower than I think you think, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:30

Yeah, and there's a million ways this can a cat a long time ago. Oh, and this wasn't that long, I can't remember exactly how long, but like several years ago when Posey was pretty little, it was yeah, she was probably five or six or seven, and she played rec here in town, and so they needed people. And I volunteered to help out with her, you know, seven-year-old rec team or whatever. And I you know, I was doing stuff, and the other person that helped with that was the librarian, one of the librarians in town, and she would bring a book, and at the end of practice, we would sit down and we would read a book. Like, and the kids loved it, and they and they knew her. She's like, you know, she I don't know if she's the child's librarian or whatever, but uh, they all knew her from the library because every little kid in town goes to the Illsley Library and they knew her, like knew Trisha, and they're like, so she's like, All right, we got five minutes left, we're gonna read this book real quick, and then we're gonna get out of here. And it was like, like my point is this is that's okay. They did plenty of soccer, but they also had this other connection time. Like, and what I really appreciate about Trisha and that she didn't come into it being like, Yeah, I know the soccer thing. She's like, Yeah, I know kids, and I want to be around kids and let's create a great experience. And and anyone can do that, yeah. Well, anyone who wants to can do that and should do that because kids need it. And it's not just soccer, it's like pick a thing, tennis, pickleball, whatever. Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

I you know, I gotta be honest with you, like I've always wanted to help out with stuff like that, but I don't know soccer that well. So this whole conversation is like maybe I, you know, maybe I'll help out.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:55

I think we just removed that excuse, AJ. I think I think you did. Like, just show up, man. Just like you probably know enough. Especially now. The truth is, your network, your network now, having been with Clover, you probably know enough that you picked up just by osmosis, just being around everything. And you now also have a robust network of coaches. Where if you're like, what do I do? If you're like Chris, I I get I I've got you know, Tim's 11-year-old team or whatever, Chris. What do I do? Like, I I'd write you a practice plan that you could be like, Yeah, I can do that, or Brian would, or Oscar would. Like, you've got like a robust network of people that would literally do it for you if you ask nice. Yeah, you know, just to get you going.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

I love it. Um, we're we're coming up kind of on the hour here. I want to do some uh, I don't know, some quick questions. Let's get to know Oscar a little bit more. You up for that, Oscar? Yes, do it. All right, man. What's what what's your favorite soccer team?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Uh I'm partial to Napoli, but I'm also I like Madrid too. I know that's a normie answer, but I like Madrid.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. Uh who is your favorite player growing up? There you go. There you go. Neymar, obviously, yeah. I figured that was a loaded question.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:12

What about what about uh what about San Diego, man?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:17

San Diego, who? Diego?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:19

Maradona, yeah. What about what about Diego?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

I got into him when I was probably like 15. Because you know, he he he played a good 20 15 years before I was born.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:31

So oh, that's fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

But I I grew up watching the Neymar compilations on YouTube, like Santos Neymar 2010, all that stuff. I was in love with it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:40

Uh, and the Barca teams that he like with him and Messi and Suarez were so good. Like they were so much fun, the three of them together. They were so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

That's the thing. It's even better. I hate Barcelona. I'm the biggest Barcelona hater in the world, and I still love Neymar because he's just he was that good. He made people just fall in love just by playing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

Yeah, for those listening, uh Oscar's wearing a Neymar shirt. So I when I asked him that question, I kind of knew the answer that was coming. But uh anyway, a best soccer atmosphere you've ever experienced.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Oh, we used to um there used to be this tournament, I think they're still doing it uh down in Southern. It's like a two-game, two-day tournament called John James. Uh it's Burnburton, MAU, Brattleboro, and Arlington, I think. And you play one game uh the first day, each team plays the first game, and then if you win that game, you go to the John James final, and it's under the lights almost every year. It's BBA versus MAU, because no offense to Arlington and Brattleboro, but they were not the same class. And it's just huge derby. There's on one side, there's all the Arlington fans in a huge stand on the other side. There's just all these BBA fans down the other side. Pitch is terrible, it's just dirt. It's just a dirt pitch. People are flying in at each other, screaming from either side. They start at like 8 p.m. It's amazing. It it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:15

That sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

That's like a real derby. It was it was a real derby, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:19

Yeah, and Arlington fans, for people who don't know, which is most people, Arlington. There's an incredible soccer culture in Arlington, and those fans bring it. Like they really like they bring it. Like Arlington is Arlington Soccer is next to nine. It's a tiny little D4 school down in like you know, the backwoods, nowhere. But like every Arlington is everybody's rival. Like, so like so like West Rutland, like their big rival is Arlington. BBA, the big rival is Arlington, like uh uh Arlington is everybody's rival just because they bring it so hard. It's and they're There have been a lot of good players that have come out of little old Arlington over the years.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

Alright. So I'm going to ask you this question twice because I'm curious. You you've been both a player and now a coach. Training session or match day as a player, what did you look forward to most?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

Oh first whistle.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:10

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:11

The game starting, yeah. Just just the feeling of like everyone standing still and then kicking off. It's just it's nothing better than that. Yeah. And then training, training, I think my favorite part of training was usually just when when you're doing the little drills with your friend, like when you start off in the beginning and you're warming up, doing like long-range passing or or you know rondos with your buddies.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:36

Just being around them during training. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

So so what you're you're saying match day was your favorite as a player. Now, as a coach, is it still match day? Is it or is it is it training session?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

I'm terrified of the first whistle every time we start. I don't know how they're gonna play it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

When I was a player, I knew how I was gonna play. But when you when you're coaching, you have no idea how if your team's on it or not yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

So all right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:02

As soon as that ball rolls, that's it. Like everybody could go rogue and do whatever. You have no idea. They could completely be flat, they could show up and like like you just don't know. And the game soccer, again, more than just about any other team game, you have the least amount of control with. Like once the ball goes, it is the player's game. They're on their own program.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:21

You can tell them what they're gonna do. There's no there's no guarantee they're gonna remember what you told them.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:26

So even if they want to, there's no guarantee they're gonna remember what it's about.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

I mean, they're out there, they're they got low oxygen in their brain, their blood's flowing, like they're not gonna remember what you told them in the huddle 10 minutes ago. No, you gotta really nail it into their heads, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:41

And it's wild that it's like the win and loss, like that goes next to your name, but you have like you do all your work, you do all your work in the training leading up to game, and you just hope you just hope that those neural pathways are wide enough that they're gonna be able to be successful and execute it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:57

All right. Um, I want to take a moment to remind our listeners that they should go on our YouTube channel, subscribe for the video version of the podcast, and then you can see Oscar in his name our shirt. And you don't have to just, you know, listen to this and let me tell you all about it. Um also make sure you're following Vermont Clover on Instagram at VermontCloverfC. And the women's team, of course, is at Vermont CloverfCW. Uh what else what else do we have out there? The website, VermontClover.com and of course the Pink and Green Podcast on Instagram. You can also go to thepinkandgreenpodcast.com and check out all of our previous episodes and other cool stuff. All the links are there. Uh Oscar, to wrap it up, a few years from now, when you look back on this whole Middlebury high school coaching experience, what do you think would have to happen for you to be like, yeah, yeah, that was that was a good move. That was a successful part of my coaching career.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

I mean I already feel like it's a good move, but in five years, I hope I look back and think that this is what really kicked it off. Or really got me going. So I hope this is like a like a boost pad for me. And I think this I hope this goes really well for a couple years and then it we'll see where I am from there. But yeah. I'm very excited to get this season going.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:23

So well, Oscar, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been another fun episode of the show. Any parting shots? Yeah for me on. Yeah, absolutely. Any any parting shots, Chris?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:33

Nah. I mean, uh well, yeah, all right. I say no every time, and then I have one. But say, if you do have, if you're a person who follows Clover, if you've got a favorite player, like look them up, follow them on Instagram, like maybe follow their college team, whatever, because like it's all out there. Most of them are going back to their college teams, and like you can kind of stay engaged with like the guys that you really like to follow. Um, and and also for everybody listening, I would encourage you to get out to your local soccer games, be that high school or college or whatever is the closest park to you, like figure out when the games are and like go watch.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Awesome. Well, I think there's nothing left to say, but we'll see you next time on the Pink and Green Podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:14

We sure will. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:18

That's gonna do it for today's episode of the Pink and Green Podcast. A huge thank you to our guests for joining us and sharing their story. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and leave us a review. It helps more people discover the growing soccer community here in Vermont. You can follow Vermont Clover FC and the Pink Green Podcast on social media for updates, match coverage, and behind-the-scenes content throughout the season. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. Until then, keep supporting local soccer and keep the game growing.