SPEAKER_03 0:32

Welcome to the Pink Tree Podcast, where we explore the rise of Vermont Soccer through the lens of community culture and the game itself, featuring stories from Vermont Clover FC. Join us as we talk with players, coaches, and the people shaping the future of the game in Vermont 20. Welcome to the Vicking Green Podcast. I'm AJ Murray.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

And I'm Chris George, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

How are you doing today, Chris?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I'm doing great. I accomplished my goal, and my goal with the beginning of these is always to get a little chuckle out of you when you're trying not to. So check for me. Check. Yeah, I'm uh besides that, I'm doing really great. It's just a good day to be alive. Almost every day is a good day to be alive. But today is an extra special good day to be alive. Sun is shining. There was a little sprinkle before, but now it's not so much. It's a good day. How about you?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

There's a thunderstorm rolling through the area, so I'm just hoping my internet connection and power maintained so we can get through this episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Only in Vermont do we talk about like, here comes a storm, the internet might go out. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

I mean, everybody knows. My parents in Pennsylvania, they never like they're like, yep, our internet's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

And now I'm like, oh, if it's too hot, mine slows down. You know, if the if this if the if a storm rips through, you know, who knows? Just as we were getting on this thing, my wi-fi just randomly decided to stop working for a minute. Uh you think that's power grid stuff? You're the expert on networking. Oh, actually, too, but you guys both probably know a little bit about networking. You think that's just power grid stuff or what?

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Ooh, I I've never heard of like temperature heating up causing your internet to slow down. That's that's a new one.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah. I don't I don't know where you're going with that.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Do you think it's all the grapevines that have crawled into the uh the that are now growing into the breaker? Not the breaker, but the transformer at the end of my driveway. Do you think it's that?

SPEAKER_03 2:38

It it could very well be. That's that's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Before we get going, one thing. So we lived here for five or six years, and the power went out one time, and then like every that was the time that everybody's power went out. And then up around the corner from me, one of the homeowners did like a little solar project in their yard. And now every time, like it's gone out a total of 14 times in the last three years since this solar project went in. And every time I'm like, they must have just not done it right, but the power company is always like, Yeah, it's squirrels. Almost every time when a power goes out, it's because a squirrel jumps the line. It's like, okay, I don't think that's what's going on. That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

I think Vermont has power issues. I have a lot of issues at my house, and I think it's mainly because there's so many trees, and like you know, we're a heavily forested state, and the power lines just kind of run through all the trees. So I don't know. I just kind of assume that's the big issue.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

You're probably right. It's life squeezing out the unlife, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah, anyway, we should probably introduce you, huh?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Might be helpful for people. Uh I can introduce myself if you want. I'm Brandon Smith.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Yes. Uh thanks, Brandon. A little back on Brandon is uh he is from the southern part of Vermont, which is that's new for us on the podcast. He you are the president of Vermont Fusion Soccer Club? Is it a soccer club or a football club?

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Yeah, I think it's uh a soccer club. Yeah, I don't think they're FC at the end of that one.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, so president of Vermont Fusion also does some work on the behind the scenes with Vermont Wild and is from played and grew up at Arlington. And one of the connections to Clover is that he also went to Vermont State University at Johnson when it was just called Johnson State, and played for a man that we know well, Brian Buchek. Did I get all that right?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah, that's that's well tracked.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Yeah, I'm trying here. And so one of the other things that is important, and some of our listeners will know, but some of our listeners won't know. But you know John Warner, who's an absolute legend in the soccer community here pretty well. You knew him pretty well. You played for that, he was your high school coach, right, at Arlington?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, yeah, he was my high school coach in Arlington.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Yeah, that's wild.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Johnson, uh, I got to play against him when he moved uh to Castleton. So that connection just kind of throughout my entire childhood.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Um how is how was that? Like, okay, this guy you played for and you admire whatever, and then you show up and you're like, now I want to uh now I want to do bad things to his team.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

That's that's that's a funny question. You know, I don't know if uh the listeners will have this experience, but I I know I did where when I was coming up through, Werner in Arlington was kind of my moral compass. Like he was that coach for me, you know. He he was kind of on this straight and narrow, at least as far as we all knew as players, and he he just had this way about him where anytime I wanted to make like a bad decision as a teenager, in the back of my head, I was kind of like, How's coach gonna feel about this? And then you you get to college and he's on the other side of the pitch and you're playing against him, and I'm like, This is just an odd, like it's an odd juxtaposition for me. Like, if I take out your player because you know they're annoying me on the field, is that like am I violating some oral code now? Like that I didn't know existed before the game, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Yeah, and when you score, you're like, okay, what would coach do right now? He'd put it wide.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, totally. Um, but it was it was always good, you know, it's nice to have the other like go shake hands and chat after matches when you're in college and just have that connection. And um, Vermont's kind of a special place in a lot of ways for that kind of stuff. And it is, I hope I think it is as much now as it was back then.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Um yeah, I think so. I think even more so to some degree, because a lot of the better players are like they're all they all know each other a lot better, I feel like, than most of us did when we were kids, because there's crossover from clubs and they're playing on all-star teams together, and you know, maybe they played in a twin state game or they were at a recruiting event together for college in a way that it's a lot more integrated than it used to be, where it was us. It was like, okay, there was that guy that played in another club, and that guy, and this same guy played in this other high school, and you just wanted to stick your spikes through this gin. So true. I mean, before, during, and after, right? Like it's a different the game has changed in many ways in many ways, and mostly for the better. Um yeah, so so John Warner, the league down there is called the John Warner League, right? Did he start the league?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah, uh his, and I don't know how much you want to get into this at the moment, but his connection to soccer in Vermont goes way back. I mean, he was kind of he came out of Oneonta, ended up in like a Volkswagen bus in Arlington, Vermont, and uh and dug in some roots, got a job and a little piece of land, and got a house, and just kind of helped craft the story of soccer in the state of Vermont, right? And so, you know, fast forward a handful of decades here, and there's now, you know, he's passed away at this point, um, but his legacy lives on, especially down here, really strong. And so the youth program, he was always a big fan of like friendship through soccer. That was kind of his thing. He was very much like kids should enjoy the game, just full stop. Um, we can compete. He was a very competitive guy and he he liked competition. But as far as what he really truly believed in, it was giving as many kids access to the sport as possible and building a love for the game and for the other players. And the league that operates down here is uh, you know, eight different towns. It reaches over into New York. Um, we have a lot of kids playing soccer under John Werner Youth Soccer League now, and that's kind of the mantra of the whole rec league in the fall is you know, friendship through soccer. Like we don't, there's no scoreboards. Um, coaches are all grassroots, the referees uh are mostly teenagers or community members that are just volunteering time. Um, and everybody's kind of bought into that, right? So the philosophy carries through, and it's it's uh really important to me and the rest of the board and the and the people in southern Vermont to kind of keep that moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

Yeah. Does Fusion have anything to do with the John Warner League? Do you guys help them run it or is it all kind of community?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

It's all pretty separate, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah, that's awesome. So each little town has its own little soccer board or team or whatever, and they get the team together, and then it's just kind of the league that pulls everybody in.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, and it's a lot of them are very connected to their school, though they're technically clubs as far as the state of Vermont is concerned. So there's Arlington Soccer Club or Twin Valley or South Shire, um, Hoosick Falls or Cambridge, New York. Actually, Cambridge isn't playing anymore, but Taconic Valley. You know, there's a a bunch of them, and they all have their town team, is essentially what this is. Um, and so the bigger towns like Bennington area all plays for South Shire. They have the most teams of any club within the league. Uh it's very much connected to the schools.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, that's really cool. And so it kind of just speeds up into the schools, and then some of the some of the players that are maybe a little bit stronger or they want a little more, those are the ones that kind of identify and go to fusion.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, yeah, that's true. So fusion operates pretty much just through the spring as far as competitive uh you know gameplay goes. We train year-round within that club, but as far as the John Warner Use Soccer League goes, they play in the fall. And so the kids that are in third and fourth grade travel and play other teams, and then most of the the clubs and organizations have, you know, kindergarten teams, first grade, second grade, and they all just play in-house or they have little friendlies uh in the area.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yeah, it's so cool that the towns work together like that. They, you know, our little town has rack soccer, but it's mostly just kids in the town. And then there's another little league up here in Addison County called the Five Towns League, which is like Bristol and Moncton and you know, uh Starksboro, all the actually all the towns that are part of the Mount Abe School District, they do a similar thing, but for them it's a much, it's much smaller, right? So like sometimes there's some years when you know they have to combine like a fifth grade team, for example, because they just don't have enough from one town or another. So it's kind of like it's still really cool how they do it. And it's the same thing. It's like there's standings, but like they're not real standings, you know, like and they get to that it's really it's a really neat little rivalry when I popped into it. And it sounds like that's kind of what you guys have going on. Um but so fast forward to now. So how do you go from young, young man in college and playing and you know, with with John as your moral compass, to now, you know, maybe being the moral compass of of some kids yourself. Like how does that how does that track through?

SPEAKER_00 12:07

I never thought about it that way. Um that just got heady real fast. I'm sorry. Um yeah, I it's it's all just kind of life, right? Like life rolls forward. I ended up staying in Vermont after college. Uh, didn't really plan on that, had kind of imagined a life for myself where I was adventuring abroad and doing all the artist things that you do when you leave school with a fine art degree, and then uh landed myself back in my hometown in Arlington and was fortunate enough to find a job and and build a career and set down my own roots here. Uh and then, you know, as that happens, you still have a love for the game, a passion for the sport, and you want to help other people kind of find that in their journey as well. And so you just get involved, right? Like I started by just volunteering as a coach. It was before my son, um, who's now 15, um, before he was of a playing age, I got involved in the Arlington Soccer Club and was just helping a coach and and run, you know, herd cats and around the field in the fall rec program. And uh, you know, you fast-forward the tape, and all those little volunteer movements move themselves forward, and you become uh more involved and more involved and more involved. And every time you raise your hand and be like, oh yeah, I'll help out, you know, everybody's like, Oh, okay, come on, come on. And so they just kind of pull you into the gravity of the soccer ecosystem. And you know, years later, now somehow I'm the president of Fusion, uh, running, you know, running the corner league, involved in the Vermont Wild, and uh watching World Cup on TV every single day.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

So yeah, yeah, it's World Cup fever is hit, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:02

It's probably important to note that there's a France game on this very moment. So yeah. Well we give them scored back in when does this air? Yeah, uh it's it's uh Switzerland won uh France too.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Switzerland won France too. I don't know exactly when it's when it's gonna air.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

So, you know uh we're looking at mid-August on this one.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Mid-August. All right, well, that's interesting. Um we have a bunch of these. We uh the one that's coming out this week is our women's coach because we wanted to kind of like coming up next Tuesday, because we wanted to kind of be able to talk about that a little bit because of the game that's coming up, which is really, really exciting. By the time people listen to this, hopefully they will have been at the hopefully they will benefit we will have been at the tailgate and ate some meat and watched some really good soccer and stuff like that. Was that the idea for the game, was that uh how involved in like coming up with the idea to play the game or you know, like do the tailgate? Like, where did you were you the seat of that idea, or was that someone else's like, hey Brendan, we're gonna do this thing?

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, the way the way I kind of run fusion as far as that's concerned, and and my involvement with the wild is very collaborative. I don't I don't really like the heavy hand of like somebody being like, here's what we're gonna do, and here's the plan, and whatever. I like things to be as fluid as possible, especially right now. Like there's so much growth and opportunity in the world of soccer in the state of Vermont. And it's it's just really cool to see people jumping in and trying to take steps forward with things, right? So you guys having the women's side coming up and the the men's team, and just that whole the way you've built that is really cool. So there's these conversations that we have, just like I hope everybody else is in the state, around like how do we support these things? How do we keep the momentum of the game going? Because the more kids that get involved in that thinking, and the more events they have that are fun to attend and have some good hoorah from the stands, right? And some community building. And the the more the love for the game grows, and the better the players become, and it's just it's just all a cool flywheel. So I knew conversations were happening. I think chap probably brought it up. Um, and I think those conversations just kind of happened outside of me. Like, I didn't I didn't necessarily spark any of them, but I definitely supported them when they came up and said, Hey, what can we make out of this? Right, like we got a cool event to do. Um, let's get as many people involved as possible and line it up. We got a double header coming up and tailgate party, and kids will be around, and all the players will be in the stadium, and it goes for a couple hours and should be pretty rad.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, I mean, by the time it's all said and done, there'll be like almost five hours of soccer, almost six by the time you include the warmups in there, which is pretty awesome. I mean, that's it's really exciting. We're really excited to to go do that. I I haven't even it's really funny. Our focus as a like an organization has really been on like our playoff run, right? We're about to come, we're coming into this final on this Sunday, and so we've been really focused on that. But in the background, I'm like, I just can't wait to like start getting everybody excited for this thing too, right? And it's gonna be like a really short lead up to it, so it's gonna be like, here we go, guys, and they're gonna be like, Yeah, let's go. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Oh, and hopefully we can like good healthy rivalry stuff building, right? Like have a little derby out of the thing and like get you know, some fans cheering against and with each other. I don't know. It's just you kind of create the environment and see what happens, and um, I think it's gonna be really sweet.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

So it's gonna be awesome. That is the World Cup vibe, is like you're both cheering with and against each other the entire time for anybody out there who's ever been to a World Cup game, especially if it's not your own country's game. Never been to a USA game, but a World Cup game that I've been to were like two different teams that I kind of was like, I'm neither here nor there on who wins or anything. So I'm just like there for the good time, and like this group of fans is cheering to cheer with them, and then this group of fans is cheering with them, and they all kind of, you know, air quotes, don't like each other during the game, but actually they do. You know, this game was kind of a blowout, and they like by the end, everybody was just cheering for good stuff. You know, it's four-nothing. Like Greece is not beating Argentina when they're down by four. This is like no one, like that's not happening, right? So everybody's kind of just in it together and they're in it for the party, and like, yeah, this is a great time. It sucks that we lost, or great that we won. But it's that kind of friendship. And I do want a proper Derby over time, having all these teams playing at similar levels in the state, it's so good for the state, I think. And so good for the kids to be able to play in you know, real games against good teams that actually matter something. We Buchak talks a lot about this, about like like playing for the badge and like playing for Vermont, right? Like when you when we're out there playing, we represent every little kid that comes to watch us play, and we're representing the state of Vermont, and the guys are really taking that message inside, which is pretty cool. Was he like that when you played at Johnson too?

SPEAKER_00 18:58

He um, yeah, I mean, different, but yeah, for sure. Like he he's a very uh hands-on, like heady kind of coach. He's not the coach that sits on the bench and and says, We we worked everything out in practice, gonna let you play your game, we'll talk tomorrow. Like, he's not that guy. Uh, he's the guy that like gets on his knee and brings you all in and wants a big group hug before a match, or wants to talk about the big meaty thing and just get it out of the way. And like he builds this awesome sense of culture, which I always found kind of a unique superpower of his. Like, he's he's definitely a talker, uh, and but he he just he loves everybody in his circle, and you feel that, right? There was moments, there's probably some stories from college that I shouldn't tell people, but there's all these moments I remember from college of just like getting together in the middle of a pitch and and Brian giving like a a speech on whatever it might be, and then all of us just kind of looking at each other like, yep, all right, we're in this together, let's go, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Yeah, that's awesome. What do you think, AJ?

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Uh, I I know we've been talking for a little bit, but um, you know, for for anybody listening to the podcast that's not uh familiar with Vermont Fusion, can can you kind of summarize what it is, why it exists, what the what the mission is, and all that good stuff?

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah, totally. So Vermont Fusion is uh a club in southern Vermont. It it sits in Manchester, Vermont. That's kind of its primary location. Um players come from all over. We have kids coming from all the way up past Rutland or down south past Pounall and then out, you know, past Brattlebrill in that direction. Um and we have teams that play from U8 all the way up through U18, U19. Our predominant season is throughout the spring. We haven't been doing a lot of league play, meaning we're not really playing in the the Vermont league stuff. We tend to go more towards the event side of things because Albany, New York is super close. So we field teams of a pretty decent level, I would say. Um and we go over and we compete. This year we focused uh with our older group, so U13 Plus, on some college ID stuff, getting kids kind of used to those environments, some bigger tournaments. We traveled to IFA and NEFC, um, went and stayed down in Boston for some of those bigger tournaments. And that was a really cool experience. I think it was eye-opening for a lot of people in the club. Um for years, the club has pretty much just played within an hour of our primary location. So that's that Albany area. Um and you get used to those teams, right? And then having a different look at some other teams, and another competition has been nice and new and fresh. Um, but yeah, we have, I don't know, like uh almost 250 kids in the club. Um, we have a phenomenal director of coaching uh at the top level named Boris uh Kojik. He's really building programming that is very focused on player development and kind of a holistic player development. I know that's kind of cliche in the soccer world, but um we map everything out early in the season and and try to build kids through it. And then um Ray Nichols is our director of coaching for U12 and Below. And he's building a program that feeds into that older model, but we're U12 and Below, we're not focused on results so much. Um, it's really just about all those touches and individual skills that you can build for the players. So uh we're we're powered by you know core values that are similar to some other people, you know, things like growth mindset and uh integrity and all those kinds of things, just trying to help kids find the accountability that's really healthy for them in sport and set them up for success uh outside of just the soccer environment, you know. So yeah, I think that's kind of Vermont Fusion in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yeah, through the kids from Fusion that I've known to work with ODP, like they're like I would say that those qualities you talk about, like the integrity stuff, like they're they're like really, they're really like the right kind of kids, if that makes any sense. I really like having them around. Sorry, I interrupted JJ.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

No, no, no. Oh, good. I was just gonna say the the area you kind of described is like the the lower third of of Vermont, right? So it I have to imagine it's maybe a little bit more challenging building a club uh in such a less populated part of the state. I I think that's fair to say.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Yeah, for sure. I mean, Vermont is all kind of less populated, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Yeah, true, true.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Um we there's not a big area of gravity here, like maybe Chetton County is the Burlington area up north, right? And um it it definitely we ask a lot of players, right, that are coming to practice twice a week that have an hour drive. Oh wow. Um but if if kids want to play kind of at the level that we're playing at, um there's not a lot of options for them, you know. So we're trying to do everything we can to build programming around all of those different player lifestyles and all the responsibilities they have towards their school and their you know local community and all that stuff. And it's super challenging, uh I'll be honest, right? Like figuring out what uh when graduation weekend is for all of the different schools that are represented on one team. Yeah, right. Like that's a trick. Uh when everybody's on spring break, that's another trick. Uh basketball season seems to carry forward now with AAU way into the summer. And uh down here, kids are multi-sport athletes, right? So they're playing two, three sports for their school teams, and the schools are small enough to where if they don't have those athletes, they don't have a team. So to ask a kid to like commit to spring soccer when they're playing baseball or softball for their school and say, hey, you have to be at practice. If you're not at a fusion practice, you know, you're not gonna be in the starting 11, or you're we can't take you as a player. Uh is that's impossible. Like you can't. I mean, we we try to instill commitment and we try to make everything work, but it is a real challenge for sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah, and as they get older and older, the the school sports commitments get more and more. Like when they're in middle school, it's not so hard, right? And then as they get up into high school, that's when it gets really tough. And it's great to have multi-sport athletes and it's great to have those kids in the school, but it does making it does make running a soccer club incredibly challenging. Even if your default thing is that like the kid wants to be here, but he can't because you know he's got a baseball game tonight, or he's got this, or he's got that. It makes it hard to get people on the same page. But then again, those multi-sport athletes are the best athletes, and this is a game played by athletes, so they tend to be pretty good soccer players too, mostly, right?

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Right. And it's hard to get upset with somebody like missing a game because they're playing another game, another sport that they love, right? It's like so yeah, I I can see what you you mean, Brandon. Like you, you know, the most clubs would probably say, Oh, you can't start because you missed practice this week, but that's that's much harder to do in that situation. Uh Chris kind of brought it up before, so I I kind of want to just dive into it a little bit. What what's kind of the the fusion wild connection?

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yeah, that's that's uh it's a good question. It's probably not as straightforward as it might seem. Um, and the reason I say that for the listeners, so Vermont Fusion years ago, uh COVID era, right, started uh a women's uh WPSL side. And there were some local players that were really talented. The Pinkis Girls were playing, and there's a lot of friends and um came to play for us. And and Fusion, I wasn't super involved in Fusion at that time, but uh Sarah and Eric Perry really were inspired to create that, and they had a lot of success for three years. Fusion ran a team in the WPSL, and then um the you know, it's challenging, right? On the team front, the expenses kind of come in, and everything is very connected with the youth club, and we don't we don't have a million kids in our club to kind of fund uh a playoff run, let's say, in the WPSL world. So um I think they they kind of set it aside. I think I think uh there was some changeover too on the board level when I kind of came in. So there was a year where uh they didn't want to do the WPSL or just kind of stepped away from it for a minute or two years. And then um once once the dust kind of settled on the change in leadership behind Fusion, kind of the the parries had stepped away and I had stepped in and they asked me, and that's a great relationship, and this wasn't anything um that there was nothing negative behind the scenes with all that stuff, right? I think they just kind of wanted to move on. Um, and they had some other personal stuff going on that made a lot of sense for them to step away. And um, I came in and I was like, you know, we really should think about getting this going again. And and the board members behind Fusion were very much like, yeah, we loved having the team, like it was such a great experience. It's really good for the kids locally to have that pathway and to see those kids in the stadium. And I was like, okay, that's that's awesome. How do we make it work? Right. Like I I don't want to, I don't necessarily want to connect the financials of the WPSL team to the financials of the youth club, right? I mean it's it's doable and you can make it work, but I just kind of felt like there should be a meaningful separation there on the back end, and so uh doing that kind of gave us an opportunity to say, hey, should we rethink about the front end too? Right. So uh Heather Henyon stepped in and was like, I love this idea. Um, Heather is very motivated by empowering women in sport and um also women in business, right? She has a company called Mind Shift Capital, which is uh providing uh financial support for women-owned businesses to succeed. So that's kind of the platform from which she was operating outside of the soccer world, and then was like, let's let's bring this platform to the soccer world and get the team going again. So uh Heather kind of stepped in and spearheaded the whole thing. She's the reason that we got it back off the ground and running, and um, it gave us that opportunity to kind of rebrand, re-identify what the team could be. And um, so we came up with a new name, Vermont Wild, and uh a new crest and new kits and new players and and got the band back together, right? First year, new administration behind the scenes, um, new model for business. It's been a little tricky getting things going as far as not a lot of success on the pitch this year, but I would say the player experience and the the brand experience have been pretty solid. So super happy with that. As far as the fusion connection goes, the the board is really behind the team. Um, myself and uh a couple other people are super involved with the team, so there's fusion crossover there. Um but yeah, they're kind of two separate entities at this point.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Gotcha. All right. Um I don't I don't know how much you could tell me about this, but I've seen pictures and I think it's just really a really cool spot. Uh what do you know about Applejack Stadium?

SPEAKER_00 31:08

So I heard some lore. Well, I don't maybe I can should Google this at some point. Like I think Applejack might be the oldest stadium in the state of Vermont.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Okay. It looks really cool. It looks very, very old.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

It'd be awesome if it was. It's far and away the best grass field. And it's like for people who've never been, if you look at an old timey baseball movie and they have like the wooden stands with like you know, the pillars in the way, and that it's it's cool. It's really, really, really awesome. It is an unbelievable place to watch a soccer game.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Yeah, I I am unfortunately gonna be out of town for that July 3rd game, but I am I'm really itching to get down there and do some photography because it just it looks so cool. Oh, yeah, both sides look good.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, the photography group we have loves being there. They just they're just enamored by the same. I think originally it was an old dog track. Oh really? Yeah, so I think that's kind of where it started, and then you know, the world evolves around not a lot of dog tracks left in the world. Vermont seemed to have a lot a couple of them. Poundwell has a really famous old one. No kidding.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Wow, yeah, it does. Yeah, dog tracks, right? So the ever so all the old timey men with their cigars and whiskeys were racing dogs, and then something happened with the dogs, and they decided they needed to do something else with it. So now it's a soccer field, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah, yeah. Uh, and it it really is like the best grass field in the state. I mean, it's just gorgeous, and the ground are super well kept there. Um, Brian does all the work on the grass in the field and and keeps the rec tip. So I think it's a pleasure for the players to play on it. You know, Vermont holds their um the I think like D4 school championships out there. Um, I think it's just four. I'm not sure if it's D3, too, but the state finals are often on that field as well.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah, it kind of rotates around where the D1, two, three, and four stuff is. So a couple of years ago, the D1 final was down there, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, I don't remember what year it was, but they could they kind of rotate them around. So I think D2 was at South Burlington last year or something like that. But there are like probably six or eight total sites that they host state championship games for soccer. Because it's it's like uh it's a neutral site for the final. It's not a neutral site up through the semis. Um I've lost in my career have lost three home semifinal games. So there's that as a coach, which is kind of disappointing. Seriously, three three years I coached at Middlebury High School, three years we lost a home semifinal game. So you know, take it or leave it, right? Um you're not supposed to, but I you know what are you gonna do? Um but so they moved the they move the finals around, but not the semifinals. Um no Applejack's awesome. AJ, seriously, you don't know you're missing, man. It's cool.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Oh I I I again dying to get down there because it just looks really cool.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

The other thing that's really cool about, and I assume it was the same way with the wild, but when fusion was going, there was a game always connected to um the Green Mountain Challenge, which is a tournament that Fusion runs. So you got hundreds of kids running around, and then everybody gets a gets a ticket for this game. So the stadium is packed with all the kids that are like in all the teams playing. It's it's a really fun thing. Like they do fun little things with the kids. I assume you guys did that again this year, but I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yeah, we did. We had a game in the stadium during GMC. Yeah, it's part of the you know, the Heather goes to the um WPSL annual meeting and everybody negotiates schedule and stuff. We're like, we have to have a home game on this weekend, non-negotiable. Like, this is the one we're putting a stake in the ground on.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

So yeah, well, and it's so cool for kids to be able to do that to see like this is what this is why it's important to do it all is like the role model thing, right? If you see it, you can be it. So every little girl that walks in there sees these incredible young women playing great high-level soccer, and they that little girl with the twinkle in her eye thinks, I can go do that. Like that's kind of what it's all about, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:02

For sure. A fun little piece that we did during the GMC this year, too, was in the past we have used a stadium for like the men's final game for U18, right? Or the women's U18 final, kind of the older teams for all the marbles play an Applejack, right? And uh parking with tournaments is always challenging. Where do you put people in? So, like using the stadium adds another field, it adds parking to the event. So we were talking about what was the best way to uh use that field or not, right? Before the GMC this year, and everybody on the fusion board decided that we would have the U8 play their games in the stadium. So Sunday morning, uh the youngest players in the tournament, right, all go out and the parents all go sit in the stands. We didn't have any older games on that field. We just let the littlest of the soccer players go out there and and run around and play the game, and it was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Oh, that's so cool. And what a thrill for those kids too to like play in the stadium, right? You don't think it matters, but a little kid, like that's the sort of thing that a kid will remember forever. Do you remember that time you were a little kid when you played in the stadium?

SPEAKER_00 36:45

Totally. And families will talk about it, you know. We I remember watching you out there when you were seven years old running around.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yeah, you hit on something earlier um about the player experience that like in my view, that's really important. But how is what how do you think the wild has kind of centered that player experience?

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Yeah, uh they you know they show up in southern Vermont, and these kids are coming from all over the place, right? Like uh schools across the country, international schools, like these are players from all over the globe. Um and they they show up in southern Vermont, and we're able to give them a place to stay. They don't have dorm housing, but we do have them uh in a hotel that's used. It's one of the Stratton properties where they put their employees for the winter. So uh the players are all staying and living together in this space, and it's right in Manchester, it's super easy to get to the field. Um, we've helped them find you know jobs for the summer locally. Um we were able to offer an internship with Heather's company, Mind Shift Capital, for business savvy players. So they get this kind of awesome experience on that front. But then in Southern Vermont, you have and and like everywhere else in Vermont, right? But we have the Dorset Quarry, which is where everybody loves to go swim during the summer. And so the players have kind of fallen in love with that like outdoor Vermont experience. And I think they got together and did a ropes course behind BBA. Um, they have been up to Bromley. They're they're just kind of soaking up like the actual wild part of Vermont, right? Because you get this kind of like play free stay wild is what we're running with on the the tagline for the team, and it's it really penetrates their experience off the pitch while they're here, and just talking with they're they're chatting with Jeff too at uh WEQX, which is our local radio station and phenomenally popular radio station, and they've kind of like fallen in love with him as a character, they're like texting with him, like, hey, can we come on Thursday morning? And he's like, Absolutely, see you there, and they're having like a player dinner, and they invited Jeff from like that like it's so I think they're really enjoying kind of the best of what Vermont has to offer, and then just from a team perspective, it's up to us to just give them access to that as much as we possibly can and like help them find it. They they went camping at Emerald Lake, and like a handful of the players, like what like we're gonna go camping in the woods with a tent, you know, like what okay, let's do that, you know. So they kind of walk away with this wild experience in in Vermont. That's so cool. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Yeah, I mean, and that's the sort of stuff too that like wins and losses are one thing, but you can't have a truly sustainable culture if it doesn't, if it can't survive a season that's a little challenging on the field from a results perspective, right? The things you're doing are what are ultimately gonna be the success of the club, is that like they're building these relationships with other people from all over the place that are gonna be persistent, but they're also based on that place as well. And they're gonna have a deep relationship with Vermont because they're doing all that stuff. You fly a kid in, you leave them in the hotel to just do their own thing, you're gonna get what you get. But doing things to keep them connected, that's so that's really awesome. I didn't know you guys were doing that, and that's really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah, I think in the past, Fusion had done it with host families, so all the players stayed with the host family, and just the the way the team kind of came together and the timing of everything this year didn't make a lot of sense to set all that up. So we were super uh pumped to get all that set up with with Stratton and their housing and um find partners that were willing to work locally and and kind of help foster those experiences for the players. Because I agree with you, Chris. Like it's it's the most important thing, in my opinion, right? Like, I mean, the fans want to see results. Certainly we all do, you know, everybody winning solves everything, right? Like, as the old saying goes. But uh I think for a lot of us, if you cultivate the right environment for them, um that does you a lot of favors in the future for recruiting too. And it just builds special moments for those players in their mind. You know, they walk away with memories that are valuable and they'll carry with them.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Yeah, if you just put a stake on we won this or we won that or we're gonna win this, then if it disappears, so does everything else. You just it's just too important to it's just too important to make the success of the club based solely on winning. Yeah, winning's important, and of course you got to do that. And of course, like that's what we're all here for. And of course the fans want to see it. But I you guys are doing the right thing, man. That's for sure, I think.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Brandon, uh, before we started recording, we were chatting, and and you said that you've been the president of Vermont Fusion for a couple of years now. What what made you want to step into that role?

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Um a lot of coercion from people around me. That's usually the case. Um I think I have a lot of perspectives on the game in the state of Vermont, right? Like having grown up and played here, uh having played in college in Vermont, and then coming back locally and getting involved. And I I just really want to create space for players to have access to the game and not have it all be pay-to-play or you know, go fight win kind of stuff. Like I really just saw it as an opportunity to have a positive influence on you know, the kind of the bigger club in the area, right? Fusion, I think outside in is probably one of the bigger clubs, probably top four in the state of Vermont, maybe top three, um, even. And I didn't, I was afraid that not afraid, that's the wrong word, but I just saw an opportunity to say, you know what, if I'm involved, I can really try to keep the culture strong. I can really try to build something where the cost doesn't skyrocket uh for the players because we have as as as does much of Vermont, we have players from all kinds of socioeconomic backgrounds, right? You have um families that need a lot of help for their kids to play sport. Uh, and then you have a lot of families who who don't, right? Who can actually help cover the cost of some other kids who need help. And when you have that type of environment, it's easy to say, you know what, let's let's raise the cost of programming this year to cover X, right? Or let's go to the more expensive tournament and we'll pass that cost along to players. And that's something that I've always been passionate about, keeping costs down for kids to have access to sport. Um, and so I just saw as an opportunity to like get involved. Not that I thought that fusion was going the wrong way with that, that's not what I'm saying. I just I didn't want to ever see it go the wrong way with it. And so that was one motivating factor. Another was just to take kind of all the work that I'd done on the rec side and apply that to a little more competitive environment. Say, you know, these these are kids that want to go play in college, these are kids that are more dedicated. Um, they're willing to come train all spring long. And how can I help make that environment better based on my experience or my perspective? And how can I bring the relationships that I have to the table for that? So that's that's kind of how it ended up there. And, you know, it helps when everybody's trying to convince you to do it and they buy you booze at the bar and help lubricate the decision a little bit.

unknown 44:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yeah, it's one of those things where everybody's trying to solve this similar kind of problems, right? Like keep the cost down to be able to do it. The challenge for you guys, I think it's one of geography, right? You're not I'm not trying to throw shade at anybody else down there, but you guys are like a proper soccer club that's relatively geographically isolated from most of the rest of the proper soccer. Clubs, right? As far as do having a premiere experience and doing that sort of thing. You can go an hour to Albany, but you're very much an outsider when you go over there because all the Albany teams are looking at all the Albany teams, right? And that's how they kind of feel their people are. Or you can go a couple hours up to, you know, northern Vermont and play against the teams up here. And it's different because there's five or six or seven of those clubs that are up here, whereas you're trying to, it's not everything to everybody because you can't do that, but your geography is so wide, and you're kind of the only thing down there that's able to that's been around long enough and able to support families in the way that you guys support it. So I there's no question in that. That's me just expounding on the thing. But it's you're you probably unique in the way that you have to go about thinking about and solving some of those problems, I think.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

They're real challenges. Yeah, and it's not easy. And with the board, you know, I'm I'm big on having kind of a working board, right? People behind the scenes that are actively trying to solve problems and and helping out and stepping into roles of the GMC, right? To be a field marshal or whatever it might be. And um I've just been really lucky to have inherited a good group of people with a club and and um and bring in you know what some other good people too. And just the power of all that thinking makes my life easier. Um, it doesn't reduce the amount of time required to run to run a club, but it does um, I think, produce the best product we can make it. And we're constantly, constantly trying to think of new ways to address all of those problems, right? The multi-sport athlete problems, the geographical kind of how long does it take to get here problems, um, the cost of tournaments that keeps going up and the cost of programming and paying coaches fairly. Finding coaches is almost as challenging as finding players, right? Like you again, small geography, like not a huge population. I don't have a ton of you know, just out of college, 20 somethings that really want to be coaches. So we we have a good healthy mix of people with incredible experience in the game that are now parents, right? That are part of our coaching staff. Or um, we do have some younger folks that really are into it, um, that are that have joined our coaching staff as well, and trying to keep them at the top of their game by providing coaching certifications or access to coaching education too, right? It's it's a really complicated web when you start getting into the minutia of running a club, um, and then it's just compounded by uh population and geography. But we're we're really fortunate to have a super high density of soccer-minded people. Like, I don't know what it is about the state of Vermont, but for whatever reason, for many, many years, it's I would say pound for pound, like the highest density of soccer-focused people per capita. I really do believe that.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Yeah, I think so too. And it's wild the talent that exists. And I'm not talking about on the field, I'm talking about like the talent that exists in it, like just in people's energy and in their mind and the way that we creatively solve problems and the community is like small but really big all at the same time. I the level and quality of like just say coaching that the average kid in Vermont gets is through the roof as compared to where they go other places, right? Because the the commitment and the passion of the people here. And Vermont has a really rich soccer history, right? You know, they started the high school team here in Middlebury in like 1972 or something like that, which and you can't start a team if you're the only high school that does it, right? So that means other high schools were doing it, and that's kind of at it's kind of at the cutting edge of when soccer was getting going here on the, you know, here in the northeast, except for in the big cities in the mid w Midwest and like down in Philadelphia. Like there wasn't a whole lot of soccer happening until the 70s. And we just kind of like keep trucking along up here in our little geographical isolation, just like doing the thing. And because we're isolated, we have to everything, you have to look inside for everything. You can't look outside for pro to solve problems. You got to look inside and you gotta rely on each other. And maybe that's the key, maybe that's the key like culture thing about Vermont is like Vermonters are great neighbors. And I think that all the soccer mind people that we work with, I think that's an extension of like being good neighbors, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Yeah, I think that's well put.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

AJ, are you a good neighbor?

SPEAKER_03 49:57

I try to be. I certainly I I have some neighbors that aren't some so good neighbors, um, but I try to be a good neighbor. So real flatlanders is what you're saying. Oh, I wish they were flatlanders. That would be the that would be the least of my problems.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

So what uh so what are some questions that what are some questions you've got, AJ, that are like I mean Southern Vermont, it's like a new soccer, new soccer universe for you. What are some questions you've got about all that?

SPEAKER_03 50:23

Um I I know we've talked about it, but I want to talk about it a little bit deeper. What what does having clubs like Wild and Clover and all that stuff like that's all relatively new for the state of Vermont? So you you know, for both of you that have been around soccer in Vermont for a while, like what is that doing for us here?

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Um I think I mean it's giving people like a chance to get out and cheer and things like that. But I think most importantly, it gives all those little kids out there people to look up to and look at and say, I want to be that person. Like if you see it, you can you can you can be it, right? Right. And it kind of strengthens all that. I think that that's one of the biggest things, just you know, the access stuff. I'm sure that there's more.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Yeah, I think it's there's a little bit of validation in it, right? Like for the longest time, like there were play, you know, I graduated with a class in Arlington, Vermont of 22 kids or something something like that. Uh and I I think three or four of us went and played soccer in college, right? Like it was a really high percentage of soccer players coming out of classes, and I so to see teams that give players access to this sport locally at a new level for them, um, I think it raises the level of awareness of the game. It shows that it is doable for a lot of the kids coming up through to your point, Chris. And uh for me, it's just kind of an inspirational thing. It's like it's validation and inspiration.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Yeah, the validation piece is really important, right? Like if you look at the success that we've had at Clover with just Vermont kids, we're having tons of success in New England, right? Like winning games and really kind of showing out there. I think it flips the model of like, oh, we have to to really be a great program, we have to bring in players from other places, right? At least in Chittenden County. You know, our model is leaned into that and to see the Vermonters and Vermont connected players, right? Also, because you you guys have got a lot of women that you know go to Castleton and things like that. They're they're really Vermont connected, just to see that connection is really awesome. We there's a lot of great players coming out of Vermont that people sleep on. Like people just sleep on the quality of players in Vermont. Not that there's a hundred in every class, but the ones that are coming out and playing, they're really good. Like really good. You know, it's just a volume issue that we don't have that other places, you know, you go to Boston and there's probably a thousand good players that come out of every class. We don't have that, but our ours are every bit as good as those ones down there, our best ones. So I like the validation. I like that you said validation.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

When a college coach is gonna go watch a game to recruit a player, right? Um, the modern college coach is gonna go to the place where they get the biggest bang for their buck. And so there's all these ID events that they have lined up, right? Or uh the finals of the big tournaments, or whatever it might be. The the college coach isn't going to a Vermont high school game. You know, they're they're never gonna go look at those. Well, you know, OC might from Castleton, or you know, a Johnson coach might go, or whoever, you know, like some of the Vermont very local schools will, but the kids, I think, feel like their options are limited because their exposure is limited. I have a lot of kids from Fusion that will go play, not a lot, but there's there's kids that want to go play over in New York, right? For New York Elite, or they go play FC Stars, or they want to go try out for the Bolts or whatever it might be. And for a lot of them, I think in their mind, that's the way for them to be seen. That's the that's the place they can go play where they're gonna end up in front of a good college coach or um, you know, a pro pathway kind of thing. And now I I think with teams like The Wild and Clover and and Green, even, you know, like those teams showing up on the stage in the state of Vermont and having some success and having, I think, the right values behind them and building the right type of program starts to create a vision for those kids that that feels attainable and more local, more doable, right? More within the walls of their state.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Yeah, absolutely. If you can, if you're from if you're a kid from Manchester and you can get it in Manchester, why wouldn't you get it in Manchester, right? If you're a kid from South Burlington and you can get it in Burlington, why would you drive to Massachusetts or Albany or whatever? I I mean UPSL, once we move up into UPSL premiere, like that starts to become a legitimate professional pathway, that which is pretty cool. Um how many of our players are gonna really want to try to go all the way through that and kind of do that thing? I don't know. Because mostly, you know, it's kids playing at college and things like that. But it is a real legitimate pro pathway, just like WPSL is a legitimate pro pathway. USL2 is a legitimate pro pathway, which is you know, I think that that's the new part. So you don't I mean, you guys know this too. You don't have to get identified at 16 or 17 to have an actual like job playing the game, right? Like that can happen at 22, 23, 24, and you can still get a few years in the game playing and getting paid to play. And I mean, you know this because, you know, to some degree he's your neighbor, but there's a guy down in southern Vermont who played in the Premier League back in the day. You know, like you know, early days of the Premier League because it because of his age, and you know, his kids were really good, and I don't think that they really struggled from an exposure perspective, and they both played college at a really high level. And the challenge for them is that there aren't the women's pathway is like it's not good. It's completely stunted. There just aren't enough teams. So it's like there's nothing between you know really good college players and the 1% of those that are gonna go play in the NWSL. There's like very little in between that. The WPSL, USLW, which is like kind of getting going, UPSLW, like, but there just isn't anything in the middle, which is hopefully what maybe we can all solve here, is to be a little bit in that middle.

SPEAKER_03 56:57

Well, I love it. I love what's happening. It's uh got got me really excited. I mean, I I wasn't really a soccer fan until Tim started playing soccer, but I'm a huge soccer fan now.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

It's a great game, man. It really is. You know, even the boring games can be exciting, right? There's just something about people running around for two hours chasing the ball that kind of pulls you right in.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

That's like non-stop puzzle solving, you know, like it's there's a challenge every moment, and there's not a lot of coach manipulation of it, you know, in other sports, there's timeouts and there's breaks, and you know, it's start, stop, start, stop, get coaching, get tactics, get changes. Like you really a soccer game is really like put the field the the team out there, right? The team goes out and they play the game, and it's up to them to solve the problems. Like, there's plenty of coaches that try to help them solve it while they're playing, but uh, I think the statistically that probably doesn't help them very much, you know.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

No, it never works. You can spend hours and hours and hours working on this corner kick play or this set piece play, and then they go out there and they like they do whatever they want. Now, it might be the thing you worked on or it might not be, right? And I mean, that's that is the beauty of it, is that it's so much the player's game. And all of our work as coaches, really, it's done in the training sessions, like the teaching that happens, and you just hope that you've taught the habits that you want them to have well enough that those are gonna shine through in those moments of those moments when they need to shine through, the moments of pressure. That's what you hope. You know, so you do the same thing. You try to, you try to you try to give them the I don't know. I've always been a really big I don't like I'm gonna back up one step. I hate this trend towards like all the data and all of the like this systems-based approach thing that's like really in vogue at the top level. Now I hate it so much because it just is stuck in the fun out of watching the game and it's stuck in the fun out of coaching the game because people like, oh, I need to use analytics. Like, here's the analytics I used, right? I can look at, let's say we're gonna score one out of every six decent shots, right? If you score three goals, you win the game. You generate 18 good shots, you go win that game because you're gonna score three goals, right? Like that's just what that's the statistics I would like to be using at like that's just the oh XG expected goals. Like, did they go in or not? Because that's what matters. Don't talk about which team is like, you know, you know what I'm saying, though? It just drives me nuts. And then so they look at managers like like Carlo Ancelotti has always been a favorite of mine, and he's really like that. He's a he's a player's guy. He's like, I'm just gonna figure out what I can do to get the best out of these people that I have in the best spots, and like we'll figure it out. And his teams are fun to watch a lot of times, right? Versus some of the other guys, and and again, these are people much smarter than I am about the game, but like I mean the Greg Burrhalter thing versus Potch, right? Like this is a big thing. Burr Halter, when he came in, he's like, we're gonna play this certain way, and this pass is gonna go there, and they're gonna there, and it's really works really great at the club level, right? Because the structure, whatever, and then you go in the national team and it's like you guys are boring and we suck. Like now we're playing back on the front foot again. Like we're not boring. I mean, even when we suck, like last night was like I was pulling my hair out because I thought we were terrible, but like it was still exciting to watch because we were like playing on the front foot and being aggressive, and like that's cool. That's like yeah, you know, I I it's just it's not fun for me to teach, like, if this pass doesn't happen, we're not doing that anymore. Like, it's and it's easy to defend against, it's not fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

I like USports uh from a coaching perspective, right? Like, right now I'm coaching a U14 girls team in Fusion, yeah, where I just wrapped up spring coaching U14 girls, and I spent five years, I think, coaching girls varsity soccer in Arlington. Um, and I've coached my son too. I one, I would much rather coach a girls' team. Um, just personally, like it's I just feel like uh the connection with the players, especially in those kind of like teenage years and where they're at, and like how they respond to coaching and the the vibe of the team. Like, if you get the right vibe out of a girls team, it's they're awesome. They're just it's so much fun. Uh, not that the boys' teams aren't fun, but the you know, the boys' teams want to compete a lot more. There's a lot more kind of that true like testosterone male energy thing going on. And um, for whatever reason, I just find it more fun coaching on the girls' side. All that said is to say that I think there's an art to coaching, right? Like it's it's not just about stats. I didn't I I certainly am not ever gonna have all of the stats for a U14 girls club team in the in Vermont to like look at that and plan tactics, right? Or nor would I ever want to? There's a certain magic of like working with the individuals that you have, letting them be themselves. But as a coach, figuring out how that turns into team and what you can do with the resources in front of you, right? It's one of the things I really appreciate about good coaches at all levels of the game are the ones that just solve the Rubik's Cube of personality, talent, um, sometimes lack of talent, right? Like, how do you how do you play with it? How do you work around it? How do you make the most out of what you have? That for me is like the beauty of of coaching. Yeah, I see sometimes at the high level, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

Yeah, I've always had the most fun on teams that were like, I'm gonna air quote that you're like the least talented, right? Like, because like that's fun for me. Like, how do I figure this out in a way that like these kids believe in themselves the way that I believe in them? Right. Like, that's my part of my we've been talking a little bit about Way of Champions stuff in the past, not to catch up on all that, but part of my Way of Champions origin story was when I was at Green Mountain College, where there was an Arlington kid on that team, actually. Um, and they were like bad, like proper bad. Like, I mean, I don't mean like not good, I mean like one of the worst college teams in Division III ever the previous years before I'd been there. They'd won seven games in five years, like bad, bad. And there wasn't this like, so I got hired to do this job, and I'm an alum from GMC, right? So it's really important to me to like bring this program back to at least borderline respectability. And in our very first team meeting, now I had been on campus and had coached the women's team as an assistant the year before. And so I like knew a lot of the guys and it was a lot of the same guys. But in that first meeting, you know, I got together and I was like, guys, it's not gonna be the soccer that's gonna win us games because nobody out there thinks that we're any good, and nobody out there believes in us. We got to find a way to believe in ourselves and believe in each other. And our success this year is gonna be based on our belief in each other and our trust in each other and our faith in each other. And so to the degree that we believe each other, we'll be successful. And if we don't believe in each other and we don't think we're any good, then we're not gonna be. And I meant wins and losses when I said that. But like it can also be said about the culture, right? But I meant wins and losses, and sure enough, we went out and we won the very first game we played. And then all of a sudden we started to believe a little bit, all because like that was the secret sauce in that team was just believing in each other. Like, no, there were a few players on there that were good enough, but mostly they weren't, and that's okay. And they knew that they weren't, right? So if I'm all about like gotta do this, gotta do that soccer wise. I mean, I created a system that they could, I you know, we looked at the situation and we're like, how can we all be successful? And I was really collaborative with them. It's like, can you do this or not? No, I can't do it. All right, we'll do something else then, fine. And I just had to completely let go all the soccer stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

Yeah, it's interesting. Like working with I love that story. Um, and it's kind of Ted Lasso, just by the way, you know, like the whole police something. Um, but not that's not like a dig in any way, shape, or form. Like it really is the underpinnings of what you need, right? Like to build a team. That's where success comes from. When they believe in each other, when they believe in you as a coach, when the the team is greater than the individuals, right? Like I I've had plenty of teams in the past where uh I kind of measure success, like, is the when you put them all together, they is the I don't remember what's the math saying, like, is the sum greater than the parts or what like is the sum greater is the is the whole greater than the sum of the parts, yeah. Yes, yeah, and that's that's kind of for me the measure of like a good team, right? Like that's and you need 11 kids to play soccer, uh nine kids to play soccer when they're younger, seven kids, whatever it might be, but they you need all of them. You you you just do. Um, and so it's it's an interesting challenge when you're in the thick of it. Like, I remember coaching some teams and having players where you're like, huh, I'm not sure how to train you. Like, we need to work on some fundamentals, you know, some like basic, like, here's how we kick with the inside of our foot, you know. Meanwhile, you have other kids that are like ripping shots from 20 yards out and you know, dribble patterns all day, and all of a sudden, so you have this kind of huge gap, right? Like the lowest common denominator is pretty far from the highest, and you got to run a training session where they're all engaged and they're all working together, and you're like, this feels like an impossible problem to solve until you do it, and then you get out there and you're like, you just figure it all out. You get them working together. There's a lot more team building in those types of teams. Uh, there's a lot more non-soccer looking things that happen, and then you watch them go play and the magic starts happening. You're like, Yep, okay, I'm winning. Like, not necessarily on the game side, but you will see results there. But like, you're just winning because they believe in each other, they're all working together and nobody's checked out. Like, that's a pretty good measure of success.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

Yeah, they're investing in each other's success, right? And it's not like, oh, if this person isn't good, we're not gonna win, but they're invested in each other's growth and they're invested in each other's success. So that kid that can rip shots is over there, like helping that person pass with the inside of their foot because they know, hey, if I'm invested in this person's success, that's gonna help everybody out, right? And it's gonna make me better as a teacher and as a player and whatever. I I'm gonna tell you another story from this team, and it's it's another one that's like this. I mean, if it is a Ted Lasso thing, they stole that from real life because it was pre-bated it by a couple of years. There was a guy on that team, um, his name's Guillermo Van Wick. I'm gonna use his name here. I absolutely love this kid. They called him Gizmo. His nickname on the team was Gizmo. He's a freshman that year. The highest level that he had played soccer at before showing up at Green Mound College, and there was like real enrollment problems. Recruiting was very tough that first year. The highest level he'd played was like U 15 rec in you know, New Jersey, where he's from, or maybe he was from like way southern New York. And he had The best attitude about things. He understood what his role was, and it was to be like a great teammate, work his hardest. He wasn't like a properly bad player. He just really struggled to have an impact at the level we were trying to play at, right? Like, I mean, he could kick the ball, he could pass it, he could, you know, get in the way and defend a little bit. But, you know, physically, he had a hard time keeping up with a lot of the guys, right? So we're at this practice going into like an important part of the season. We'd lost a few games in a row. It's like, you know, this, like, you know this, Brandon, that like middle of October, when it's every day it's 30 and raining, and you're practicing, and you've lost a couple of games, and you got one coming up against a team that's way better than you, and you're like, what am I even doing here? Like you're questioning everything about every decision you've ever made in your entire life as you're walking the long walk from the locker room, which is like a quarter of a mile down to this field in the back of Green Mountain on the inside the horse track. You know what I'm talking about. And so we're out there, yeah, and we're doing something, and it's like not going very well. And like they're kind of going through the motions, and it's not just going through the motions, but it's like bad going through the motions. And I'm like waiting, and generally before I stop and correct, I want to wait to see if it'll self-correct because a lot of times it does, right? And it's just getting worse and worse and worse, and then the effort starts to go. And in the back of my mind, I'm like, all right, now I gotta stop this thing, and I really gotta light into them a little bit. And I don't generally like that's not my default mode, and with that team, it really wasn't either. So I'm like, I really need to light a fire, right? Like, there needs to be swearing, it needs to be loud, you know, whatever. And I stop the I stop them and I bring them all in, which I don't usually do. That's like, so bring them all in, and I'm like, guys, and this kid, Gizmo, he's like, hold on, coach, I got this. And I'm like, you know, I'm on the fire, okay, guys, you got it, right? And he's like, and he just rips into it and he's like, I'm not even good. And you guys are playing so bad that you're making me look awesome. And he's like, if I can get out here and do it and try my best, then you guys all need to too. And he's just like, and he's like the most positive, happiest, nicest dude in the entire world. And he's just encouraging them to be better. Basically, he's like, like, I'm here and you guys are here. Like, and he's just like, uh you guys just need to go here again. And he's just like, I mean, and he goes on for like two minutes, and the guys look around, they're like, Okay. And they went back out, and it was the best rest of the session. Like, it was the best rest the best practice we had all season after that. It's like and he knew his moment, right? He knew his moment. That's so cool. Yeah, I actually texted him not that long ago. He's a serial I love that kid. He's like a serial entrepreneur, he's like, I don't know, started a hot sauce company or something. I'm trying to get him to come to Paul Smith's and like like introduce him to some of the guys because I love telling stories of like all the guys that played for me, right? It's a way for me to feel connected to them, even though they don't know, right? Sorry. Anyway, yeah, that team was something.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:43

Well, our uh our time is just about up here. I want to remind our listeners that if they're enjoying the show, and I hope they are, they should subscribe to the podcast wherever they get their podcasts. And also check out our YouTube channel. We have video versions of the podcast. You can sign on and see what's going on for uh the the episodes here. Sometimes we'll do some show and tell and uh you know not tell you exactly what's going on in the podcast so you have an excuse to come uh see the YouTube channel. Uh, and there's also plenty of ways to support. You can check out all the links in the show notes and uh in the YouTube channel description. So please do support the show. Uh Brandon, I will give you an opportunity here to give a parting shot and uh you know, drop any websites you want people to check out. And if you don't, I will.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

You know, uh I'd just say check out The Wild on social media, right? That's uh at Vermont Wild FC. Um, I'd say if you're in southern Vermont and you want to come watch a game, come come watch play. There's their season short, but uh mainly in the summertime, kind of June-ish is a good time. And then um, yeah, if you you know any kids in the area that want to come play club soccer, fusion's always out there for them. And um, I'd just say to all anybody listening, keep it up, keep going. Um, sport is a great way for kids to to become good humans in life and uh keep at it, right? So get involved. Um as a parent, if you see an opportunity, it's you might end up running clubs someday. You never know. So that's kind of my parting bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:17

That's great. Thank you. Chris, any parting shots? Say yes to things, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:20

That's what Brandon is trying to encourage everybody to do is say yes to awesome things. Like it's okay to it's okay to get badgered into things. You might find a passion.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

I love it. Excellent. Well, this has been one heck of an episode of the Pink and Green Podcast. I'm AJ. And I'm Chris. We'll see you next time. We sure will. That's gonna do it for today's episode of the Pink and Green Podcast. A huge thank you to our guests for joining us and sharing their story. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and leave us a review. It helps more people discover the growing soccer community here in Vermont. You can follow Vermont Clover FC and the Pink and Green Podcast on social media for updates, match coverage, and behind-the-scenes content throughout the season. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Until then, keep supporting local soccer and keep the game growing.