SPEAKER_00 0:32

Welcome to the Pink Link Podcast, where we explore the rise of Vermont soccer through the lens of community, culture, and the game itself, featuring stories from Vermont Clover FC. Join us as we talk with players, coaches, and the people shaping the future of the game in Vermont.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

And I'm Chris George.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Chris, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I'm doing fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

What what's what's new in your world?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

My world. Um picked up the girls at school. It's nice out today.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

It is.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

What else is new in my world? I'm just you know I am completely flummoxed by that question, is because all I'm thinking about is what makes the market basket seltzer superior.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Uh, you know, it's it it is pretty good. I don't know what makes it superior, but it's it's pretty tasty. They got some good flavors. Uh we're we're either you'll find two varieties. We'll either have uh market basket or polar uh brand seltzer here in the house. And then sometimes you know we'll we'll branch out Costco have a flat of something you know unique.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Well, that's what I was gonna ask about polar because I'm most familiar with polar.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

So like which is better.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Um man. If I had to do like a side-by-side comparison, I I would say market basket. Like I think the flavors are a bit fuller. Uh, but you you're and and not that polar has this, but like it's fuller, but there's no saccharine or anything like that. Like it just it just tastes like you can definitely taste the raspberry more in the market basket brand stuff than you can in the polar stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Yeah, you feel like you're getting your money's worth one more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Is raspberry your favorite?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I I'm a big fan of black cherry, actually.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, black cherry soda is so good.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Especially old school black cherry soda where it's like made with real sugar, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Stuart's is a good kind.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, I've always wondered if they are related to the Stuart's convenience or people. I don't know that answer.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I could never turn down uh a fountain soda cherry coke. I love cherry coke. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah, cherry coke is so good. Cherry Coke is so good. And I I think that it diminishes the cherry coke a little that they now have all these other Coke flavors like vanilla coke and lime coke or whatever. Like it used to just be Coke, cherry coke, Diet Coke, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah. When the world was a little simpler. Do you are you old enough to remember when they changed to new Coke and it was a disaster?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Or was that before your I think that was before my time.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Yeah, I was a little kid and I remember people lost their minds.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

And so I I remember Crystal Clear Pepsi.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yes. Yeah, it tasted exactly the same, only it was clear, and people did not like that either. Yeah. Their whole advertising campaign was just clear.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Clear as water or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Yeah, which kind of begs the inevitable question of why on earth is it black if it you can make it clear.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Right. Or what do you do into a thing that's normally black to make it clear?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

And then I guess the inevitable question after that is what is the default color of Pepsi? Like what color is it actually?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

You're you're not adding brown food coloring to that, are you?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Right, exactly. I mean, and that's probably where the cancer is, is the brown food coloring. Um we've gone a little off track with our green and our green pinkness today here, but that's okay. Uh, we have a very special episode today. We are the person I'm interviewing is AJ. Ooh, in the hot seat. Yeah. I guess so. And normally how we do this is AJ does the proper interview stuff, and I just throw things in there when we have a guest. But today we wanted to flip the script a little bit because I am genuinely curious about AJ. And although we spend a lot of time together, we don't really have those kind of deep conversations that are like to just learn more about each other than the really casual stuff, right? Really true. Yeah. So I think it's will be fun to talk about a little bit of like how you found us. Because that's okay, let's just start at the beginning. How did you find us?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Um, I saw, yeah, so so the Instagram algorithm worked in your favor. Um, last summer, we as as a family, we finally started getting out to Vermont Green Games, and of course, they had a wonderful season, made it in the playoffs, had had you know, great time. And kind of off that like rush of like local sports scene and everything, uh, you know, my son's a huge fan of soccer. I was flipping through the gram one day, and your account got advertised to me. It's like, hey, check this out. And I don't think it was an ad per se, it was just this is a new account, check it out. Uh, and at the time it had the AI generated logo, I believe you're referring to when we've had those conversations. Um, but it's just like, oh, hey, cool, there's a new soccer team in town. So that kind of like planted the seed there. Uh, and then I didn't see the account again for a while until I want to say it was earlier this year, and then I started seeing uh it you were posting the signed images, like the players that you guys had signed up to play uh for for the coming season. So it kind of refreshed, like, oh yeah, this thing it exists as a thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yeah, that's the AI logo was not around for very long. So it's nice that the uh it's nice that it was always meant to just be a placeholder with the league, and they weren't that wasn't supposed to be out in public, but you know, it did, and we have the nice logo now. I appreciate that it things that we hope work in our favor actually worked in our favor. That's nice. Yeah. Uh and so you sent, I think you sent me an email, right? Or was it a yeah, which is also cool because things are working the way they're supposed to, and you had this idea, this project you wanted to pitch. And yes, yeah. So uh and my question, now we need to know about what the original idea for the project was, but I'm curious about how the execution on said project may have evolved since you actually kind of rolled your sleeves up and got in here.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah. Uh so I originally pitched you like that this is the inaugural year of Vermont Clover. You know, let me follow along, you know, practices, traveling, any sort of events you guys are participating in, and just take pictures and kind of document this thing and and let me do like the storytelling of your first year. Um, and then you know, after all is said and done, I'll take some time and put together like a photo book of like, you know, the highlights and health. Like, I want to capture like what was it like to be at Clover practice? What was it like to be at a game? What was it like to be, you know, in the community events and stuff like that? Like just capture the essence of this first year of Vermont Clover.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Yeah, I think that you do an awesome job at that. People always, when people ask about, oh, who does your photography? The next thing that comes out of their mouth is, I really appreciate that it's not just action shots. They really like that kind of behind-the-scenes stuff. How have you felt? Is that still the vision for the project? Is like the behind-the-scenes kind of scrapbook tell the first story thing?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yes, yes. And that there's every time I go to a game, I think about like what what's something that I haven't had a chance to document yet. And one of the things that's on my to-do list is the supporters, the fans, right? Like a lot of family comes to support these guys when they play, and not all of them live locally, so they're making like long treks up here uh to be able to sit in the stands. And so, you know, my vision for that is is like to approach the crowd, who's who's family, who's close friends, who are you here supporting. Um, and and along the the lines, we have like a little metal fence uh to separate the pitch from the crowd. And I just want them kind of like grabbing onto that, you know, and and take their portrait and you know, make sure to add some of those into the into the book.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, one of the pictures that gets a lot of real positive feedback is the picture of uh Michael and and John O'Connor hugging. I think it was after the first home game where they're kind of like hugging over the fence. Yeah, yeah. People people really like that one. I really like that one too, because it it just kind of captures that moment between a father and a son, you know, like the pure and and and OC, uh, John Michael's father's been at I think he's been at all the home games.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

I think so too, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Which is pretty crazy because it is not a short ride from Rutland where they live. Oh my gosh. You know, and and Michael and Sean come up for almost every practice from Castleton, right? I I assume Sean's back at home in Montpelier now, but they're coming up every every time from Castleton, which is pretty crazy. I mean, that's commitment, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:34

There's always a car load of the Castleton guys, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, it's no joke. So how have so a lot of the shots, a lot of the photography that we use, not all of it, but a lot of the photography that we use in our in our social media and uh just in all of our stuff is yours. Yeah, how's that journey been for you?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

It's been while so the the reason why I wanted to do this is like I'm not a photographer by by trade, right? Like I'm not a professional photographer for my career. I'm I work in IT, I have worked in IT for like the last 20 years. Photography has always been something that lets me lets the creative juices flow. It's and I've really heavily invested in that in the last five years. Like I have, you know, a really high-end, like professional body because that's what I wanted to learn on the platform I wanted to use. I I've always been uh a proponent of buy once, cry once. So I spend the money on the expensive glass because they they say like marry your glass, date your body, um in in camera terms. So I I buy the expensive glass because it's gonna be the stuff I'm gonna use for the next 10 and or 20 years. I don't want to buy the cheaper version, use that, and then buy the expensive version later. Just just buy the expensive one. Um, so I I've made this this investment because for me, photography is a long play, right? Like it's something that I want to do for the rest of my life and something that I can enjoy into retirement, right? Like I've started teaching workshops. Um, I want to do uh a variety of those. Um, you know, I always like to like teach and share and stuff like that. So um I wanted to do this project because there's only so many times I can go to the same covered bridge or barn and take pictures of it. And I don't knock any photographer that does that. You know, some really great photographers do that. You know, Ansel Adams was was famous for like always visiting the same spot and different times of the year and stuff like that and taking different pictures because you you'll always get you know different results. The weather's always different, the lights always different. Um, but for me, that that was just getting like a little long in the tooth. And through some experimenting, I found that I love to take pictures of people doing the thing that they love to do. Whether or not I'm interested in it has nothing to do with it, right? Like if you're if it's something that the person enjoys doing, like I want to capture them like in their moment, make them feel seen. Um, and and that's just really something that I keep gravitating towards. And so I saw this as an opportunity to get some really good experience, to get out a couple times a week and use my camera and you know, sharpen my eye and and just get better at this thing that I love to do. And boy, has it turned into so much more than that in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yeah, I mean, we rubbed into this thing for for starters. I I appreciate what you said about wanting to take pictures of people pursuing something that they're passionate about. There's just something about being around people experiencing joy.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

And I've always felt that I I appreciate your your love for getting that on film because my favorite pictures are those kind of like agony and ecstasy sort of moments where it's just you know you got the pure emotion. And and it it's not just a thing that happens in athletics, but you get a lot of opportunities for that when you're around athletics, right? Because people are competing so hard and they're doing something that they genuinely love.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Right. And a lot of the time it's really like type two happiness, right? Have I ever talked to you about the type one and type two happiness? No, no, someone introduced this concept to me. Type one happiness is like puppy dogs, balloons, and ice cream. Like it's fun, like it's just fun, there's not anything in it, you don't have to work for it, it shows up and it's great. Like popping balloons is is fun, like playing with the puppy dog is fun, or eating ice cream is is fun. And then there's type two fun, which is like you really got to work for it. And it's not necessarily fun in the moment that you're doing it, but you walk away from it saying, Man, I had a lot of fun, yeah, and it was an expression of joy. And that describes every you know, every soccer game, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

It's you know, it's kind of type two fun, it's hard work, but at the end you're like, Yeah, that was great. I loved that. Even though there might not have been a single moment while doing the actual activity that you would have said, Man, this is fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah, I I I love that. That's that's a great definition.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, I uh one thing that I'm curious about, and I don't want you to tell me I want to guess it. I want to know what the AJ is. I want to know what A and J is. Okay, okay. I'm gonna ask you the questions maybe to get to there. Is is the J does that represent Junior?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Okay, awesome. All right, so I got the J.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

So right off the bat, too. I thought that was gonna take a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

No, it's not actually your middle name. Junior's not actually your name.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

I will say that my middle name also starts with a J. So there's like this double double entendre with a J.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Gotcha. Name of Saint, I'm sure. James or John or James or something like that. Yeah, all right. Wow, first trying that one too. Yep. All right. Now I gotta now I don't know anything about your family background. We've never talked about this. Okay. Is it Anthony?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

No.

unknown 14:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Am I on the right track here?

SPEAKER_00 14:52

I mean it starts with A. Yeah, it starts with A. Okay. How about Andrew?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

I'm just gonna go names of the city.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Adam? No. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Nobody goes AJ from Adam.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

No.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Is it a name that is commonly nicknamified into something else?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Oh, that's a good question. Uh I don't believe so. I've never heard any nicknames. I I mean it's been shortened.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I'm gonna get the A. It's a hard one. It's not so it's not any kind of Anthony, it's not any kind of Andrew, it's not any kind of Adam. But it does start with an A.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

I think it's along the same lines of commonality. There's a couple of different ways that you could spell it.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Oh, so like maybe it's Antonio.

unknown 15:35

No.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

All right, I'm done guessing. You're gonna have to tell me.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

It's Alan. Alan. Alan.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Yeah, usually Alan's are Alan.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Like nobody's uh you're the first Alan I've ever met that is not Alan.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, I don't go by Alan. Yeah, yeah. Uh and and then like um my my dad was he he always he always went by Al. Yeah. Um he was really into like C B radio, and his his whole thing was like uh eight ball or big al or something like that. And somebody I remember when I was a kid, somebody called me big al and was like, I'm not big al, I'm little Al.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

So then you just became Al Jr. Which naturally lent itself to being shortened to AJ.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Yeah, gotcha. And then I I've just gone by that. Like my and like I will tell you literally, I sometimes forget my first name is Alan. Like in in uh high school and college, like first day of school, taking roll call. Alan, Alan, Alan, oh yeah, that's me. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yep, my bad. Alan Murray. Yeah, Alan Murray. Yeah, yeah. That's all right, Mystery Soft. Alan, so Alan James Murray, got it. Yeah, yeah, good. AJ, good, but it's more like but it's Al Jr. Yeah, really is what it is, is Al Jr. Yeah, yeah, that's good. How are you? So your dad is Alan James also, so that's how juniors work. Yeah, how does it feel to be a junior to have the same name as somebody else?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Um so I will tell you that growing up, my uh my honest feelings about it was I felt it was kind of like a cop-out, like, oh gosh, my parents couldn't think of an original name, so they just named me after my dad. Um but my perspective on that changed because when I was 18, I unexpectedly lost my dad. Uh and so I'm very proud to carry on his name.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, that's cool. I mean, it's not cool that you lost him, but that's cool that you get to carry that little piece of him like that.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

I mean, everybody in my people my parents' age are in love with the name Christopher. Like in love with it. Yeah, and same with and same with Aaron, right? So I've got a sister, Erin, right? And the people in like I went to school with a bunch of Chris's.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

So that that was a name that my parents were tossing around for me before they decided on on Alan Jr.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

That would have been wild.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Like I was almost a Chris.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Chris Murray. That would have been wild if we were both Chris's here doing this thing. Although I think about a lot of times how like names influence the things that happen for you. Yeah. Right? There's just like that the the one sound that is you. Like that's what it is, it means me, right? But like, how does the name influence a thing? And you can't really do a study about it because you can't prove a negative, right? Like, what doors have been opened because you're AJ versus being Alan versus being named Chris, right? Right. You just can't do it. Yeah. And and I've also thought about names, like Chris is effectively a gender neutral name, right? Because you could be Christine, you could be Christopher.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

True. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Whatever. There's no there's no like strong gender. Alan, on the other hand, like I've never met a woman named Alan.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

There could be. And there are some there are some names too that are used, like Ryan, for example. It's not an uncommon women's name.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

But when you hear Ryan, you immediately think, okay, that's man.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Right. So I've always wondered about the name, the name thing. And maybe that's a subject of a different conversation because I want to hear more about your photography stuff. Um had so five years you've been doing it, or five-ish years since you got kind of serious. Yeah. And you were doing a lot of landscape stuff until you decided, okay, I'm going to dive into this portraiture thing, but like moving portraits. Right. And are you do you enjoy more of the the portrait kind of stuff? Or do you enjoy more of the kind of sports photography thing where people are moving real fast?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Um definitely where people are moving fast, right? Um, what what kind of helped get me in this lane was uh I saw an opportunity to volunteer for uh it's it's uh a thing, uh the Vermont Iron Dog. That's what it's called. The Vermont Iron Dog. So it's this annual uh competition. It it starts out with all of the you know police, um, it could be TSA, it could be military, all the police dogs, all of those folks run this competition, run this course. And then later in the day, if you have a dog and you want to run the course, you can do it too. You don't have to have any sort of affiliation. Um, so I signed up to be a volunteer for that, and I got put on the water section of the course where they had to cut off of the trail, run through a marshy area, and then jump into some water and run through the beach and then up onto the sand and back onto the trail and away they went. And it's it's held at this beautiful camp in Colchester, and it was just really fun capturing the splashing of the water, the looks that the dogs would give their handlers, like looking for the next command, or you know, did I do that right? Like it was just really fun, and that that's what kind of got me off of like, you know, going and do the landscape thing all the time, and like, oh, okay, there's this other side of like photography that I should explore more.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Yeah, so you're saying that you're up for Montclover because of dogs.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

I if we were to shorten it, yeah. Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah, well, it's the same thing you talked about earlier, right? It's it's watching someone do what they're really passionate about. Yeah, yeah. But those dogs love to work. Oh, yeah. They love to run, they love to splash around. And for them, it's you know, it's not play, but it's play. It's got the same feel as play for them. They love that. And that's oh man, I bet that there's I'd like to see some of those photos some days.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Oh, absolutely. I'd love to show you.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

What has been your favorite part so far about actually let me back up one step. So you started coming, it was definitely January that you started coming around, which was when we started kind of doing our thing inside and whatever. So you've been here basically since the very beginning. Since we were you might have been at the very first session that we all got together.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Maybe. I I think I by happenstance contacted you just before you started doing your first practices, and I don't think I made it to like the very first one, but I was there like that first week.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, that's really cool. So, what has been your what's been your like kind of like favorite experience so far?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Watching the team form, right? Like I I think when everybody showed up, there was this obvious sense of like, I need to prove myself. I I need to make sure that I get picked to be on the roster, I'm not shortlisted or anything like that. So, you know, you could tell that while everybody was there to to be on a team, everybody was also like kind of independently showing off or showing what they're capable of. And Very quickly, I think that mentality went away and the camaraderie started to form and people started to get to know each other. And and even myself, right? Like I was always kind of an outsider. Like I first kind of approached this as like a ninja, right? Like if I'm getting spotted, I'm in the way. Um, and I don't want to be in the way. I I just want to be like an observer. But then, you know, people started to like get to know me, and I started to get to know them. It's like, hey, what's up? And then now like I see these guys around and and you know they seek me out and say hello and stuff like that. So it's it's just been really fun to watch the the growth of this thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah. What do you think the biggest reason for that was?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

I think it's the leadership, and that's that's both Brian's leadership and the environment that he kind of cultivates as well as uh Michael O'Connor's, right? Like he's the team captain, and and even on practices and stuff like that, like I I know it's a very like per game kind of role, but even off the pitch, he still very much carries himself as like a leader on the team.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Yeah, there are guys that they're leaders amongst leaders, right? Because kind of almost by definition, a lot of the guys are gonna be leaders in their different environments that they're at all the time. You know, they're oftentimes the best players at their club team or what have you. So it's it's pretty cool to see how leaders do leader things, right? And how they pull people in. And and you know this too, like and in your work with teams, functional teams are really only as effective as their leaders are, right? Like you can't be a truly functional team if a leader isn't creating space for that team to be functional, right? Right? If it's all about the leader, it never works. If it's all about this one guy, it never works. If it's all about the small group of people, it never works.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Um from a photography perspective, I guess, what's been the most challenging what's been like what's been the biggest obstacle for you or your biggest challenge that you've faced?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Um I I would say my skills as a soccer storytelling photographer, right? Like my only experience shooting soccer prior to Clover was my my own son's games, right? Like that and and that's honestly the extent of it. So so when we first talked, and and you know, there's like, well, you know, I can't afford to pay you. Like, that's fine. I don't know if I can deliver. At least that's what I was thinking in my head, right? Like, um, I I I didn't want to be paid at uh plus this is like a side thing, right? Like yeah, um, so as as this season has gone on, like I've spent a lot of time looking at photography that other sports photographers do. What are the kinds of things that they capture for like you know, inspiration and stuff like that? I will tell you, like, it's very different to show up and photograph Clover versus like you know, my son's U12 team. You know, there's they're a little bit faster at this age, it turns out. Um, you know, which is something I I anticipated, it just was a little bit it there was a bit of a learning curve. And it's really funny when I go back and look at some of the earlier work. Like I submitted stuff to you guys that today I would be like absolutely not. Uh so it's just really cool to see that in my own growth.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yeah, and that's a pretty quick progression too, because we're only really only talking a couple months here, right? And it has kind of led to some expansion of the work that people are looking for too, right? So, like you you did some work with uh I can't remember who it was, but some other club recently, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yep, Nordic.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yeah, that's really cool. How was that experience?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

That that was really fun. Uh so they had done the the walk-on uh for one of the games, and um somebody there representing Nordic, um, you know, she kind of flagged me down um during the game and just said, Hey, I would love a copy of those photos. And so uh her and I started talking after the fact. Um, and she said, Hey, once a year we like to hire a photographer to do this thing. And I'm like, Oh, well, I don't really have like a menu of services. This isn't really like my you know money-paying job or whatever. Um, but we worked it out and uh it was a great experience. I showed up uh to their training sessions on a Monday and a Thursday, and you know, they take up many fields over at Tree Farm, and I just kind of walked around and did some action shots. And of course, the kids, you know, they see somebody with a camera and they all you know jump in a group and throw signs and stuff like that. It was it was just fun, it was a whole lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yeah, that's awesome. I that's a thing that you don't see like the mugging for the camera, you don't see the clover guys doing that very often. They're just at this point, your presence is just something that's there that they and you know, some of them are playing in environments where there are where there are people with cameras all the time, they're just not paying attention to it. Yeah, for a second.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

There was one of the first times that that Michael tried to do something, I didn't realize he was talking to me. I thought he was talking to somebody else like downfield. Uh, and then when I didn't like react and point the camera, like I looked at him because he he was like obviously being loud, but I thought he was talking to somebody downfield, and when I didn't point the camera at him, he's just like ah, and I'm like, Oh, that was for me. Okay. So now now every once in a while, if when I when I catch the guys just kind of sitting around on the sidelines, I I try to engage with them and you know get him to pose for a photo.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Yeah. Do you find that the little kids when they see the camera, they're always just like they jump in front of it and they want to be.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. In fact, some of the coaches shut that down real quick.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah. Did you find the coaches kind of let in with like, oh, there's a photographer here, like ignore him? Or was it like did it happen? And then they felt like it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

It was about 50-50, right? Uh well, I guess it wasn't 50-50, it was like 33, right? Like some coaches completely ignored it. Some of them uh acknowledged the presence but didn't make a big deal out of it. And then um there was a few that were definitely like, look, the camera's here, you want good pictures, perform, do your best, you know, and and so it was really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah, that's so was that a completely I mean, generally shooting kids like Timothy's team is gonna be different than Clover, but shooting the Nordic teams, or was that more like the experience with Tim or more like the experience with Clover?

SPEAKER_00 29:01

I I would say it was a sweet combination of the two because of such the the broad range, right? You we had like the the U10, the U12, and then it went all the way up to like U18. And so that there was definitely like it wasn't maybe as intense as as Clover can be sometimes, but it was it was up there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

And there's some of those guys that are and girls that are potentially going to be in the pool over the next couple of years, too, right? So you might be seeing a little more of them, which is pretty wild. Um, how do you and maybe the obvious question is how do you find time to do all this? Because you got the work thing, yeah, and you got the family thing. Yeah. And like, how do you find time for the clover thing?

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Uh luckily my family is very kind of involved in the clover thing. Like they're big clover fans, they come to every game. Um, you know, you know, when when the opportunity came around to buy season tickets, it was like, well, you know, we want to support this thing, and and so we bought season tickets for my wife and my son. Um, and you know, my wife has been very supportive of it. You know, she knows how much I enjoy photography. Um, and and there there has there has to be that kind of line in the sand. Like when Nordic first approached me, there was definitely like a conversation of budgets and and stuff like that. Because, you know, I I love what I do for Clover, but I do it for free. And I can't I can't keep giving my services away, right? Like I only have so much room to do free things, right? So when when another organization wants me to come and do something, there definitely has to be a talk of like budgets and stuff like that. Like uh VSA recently asked me to to cover some of their events, and and I had to have that conversation with them. Like, hey, and this is um something new for me because uh I had a problem drawing a line in the sand with a previous uh passion project and it burned me out hard, really hard.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah, we don't want that. What was the what was the previous thing you were doing?

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Uh so I was doing a podcast. Uh I did a podcast from 2020 until the beginning of 2025. I left I left the show then.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah, so this is a thing that I kind of struggle with sometimes too, is like the burnout thing. So how do you how do you how do you do it? How do you avoid I mean have it? It's happened to me too. It's happened to everybody at a certain point. Yeah, how do you avoid the burnout thing? How do you consciously manage through when that might be starting to happen?

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Um so with the with the podcast, it was it had grown so much it was actually a business. And we got an LLC for it, it was a single member LLC, and it was under my name. And I I did not say no to any part of that business, right? Because it had my name on it. Like I I was, you know, one of the co-hosts, I was editing the show, managing all the social media experiences or accounts, um, you know, negotiating with uh our customers or the which are these big tech companies that wanted to advertise on our show. Um, you know, I was doing literally all of the things. Um, and so I've learned like I can't do all of that anymore. So I only choose what things that I want to give my energy to. And Clover has definitely been one of them. And as I've gotten more and more involved, I've made the decision to give more and more energy to it because I'm getting a lot out of it, right? Like I'm getting a lot of really good experience, I'm building a lot of great relationships. You know, I work from home, I have great coworkers, but they're all over the world, right? So I don't get that kind of like people experience. Um, but I'm feeling very a part of a community here, and I really enjoy the the friendships that I'm starting to make. And and so I'm getting so much more out of the clover experience than I thought I was going to.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Well, that's really encouraging to hear. I love that. Um, just the fact that we're building community even for one person, right? Like that's what it's that's what it's always meant to be, and we're always what it's meant to be about is building that community of people. Yeah, okay. The context is soccer, but right, you know, with the real context is people who are passionate about the thing that they're doing or or that we're doing that want to come and be a part of something.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Um, what are some of the other things that you do besides the photography stuff and and the work stuff? We didn't talk a whole lot about your work, but you know, you can if you want to, but what are some of the other things that you do to kind of keep your mind fresh?

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Um I am a big proponent of mental health. So I do a lot of meditation. I find a lot of benefits in that. Um, it has helped me out a lot in the last year in my recovery from burnout. Um, you know, making sure I'm taking the time, you know, for myself, right? Like go for a drive, go for a jog, um, you know, go do some other photography project that I'm really interested in, right? Like some good friends of mine uh started uh a beehive. And so I've been documenting, you know, her beehive as it like, you know, move-in day, setting up the hive, uh, setting up the or having that the actual bees move in, uh, and then you know, checking on it every now and then. How how are the how how's the hive doing? Are they making honeycomb? Are they you know putting larva in there? You know, are they doing everything they they uh are supposed to be doing to show signs of like this is where they've decided to live? Uh and that's just been a really fun, fun project. You know, I'm learning more about bees, I'm doing something for a friend, uh, and I'm getting some great photos out of it. So again, like going back to the whole you know, boundaries thing, like those things that are sucking the life out of me that I don't want to give my energy to, like, I find a way to like stop. Like, this isn't working. I'm I'm seeing those those signs early on now. I'm noticing more, and and especially with work too. Like, work's really busy. I work for a tech company, I manage a demo environment. Um, I've done enterprise IT my entire career, so I know servers, storage, hardware, you know, predominantly networking. Uh, I was a network engineer for a long time. And and so um I get to do all of these things that I've done my entire career, but it's for a demo environment. So if it breaks, it's really not that big of a deal. Uh and I don't have to worry about doing you know cutovers in a data center with a bunch of people looking over my shoulder, um, like I used to in some jobs. So the the professional job stress, like while it's still there, it's very it's very different than how it used to feel. Um so just just kind of trying to keep all that stuff in check and and using the tools like the meditation and some other things to to help when things start to feel a little uneven or rocky.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Yeah. Do you have a set time during the day that you meditate? Like do you get up and do it, or is it like in the evening or yeah, it's usually first thing in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

I I roll out of bed sometime between 5 30 and 6, wander to my office, and that's usually the first thing that I do before I start checking emails or or anything else, before I start staring at screens.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Yeah, I appreciate that we're doing that at exactly the same time. Because I spent I have a little morning routine that involves me. I don't know if it's meditation in the sense that most people think about it, but what it is is a self-check-in. Okay. Where am I at today? Like, where am I? I find that the hardest thing is self-awareness. And not like in the in the big sense of knowing who you are. Because uh I'm gonna guess you've got a pretty good idea of who you are deep down inside. But in the moment, there is not always that same self-awareness.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Right? Because you get caught in things. You know, it's like it's like you know how to swim, but you're in a river and your raft just tipped over, so all you're worried about is getting ashore. Yes. Right. And then you kind of lose, okay, this is how I actually need to swim, and this is how I swim the best way, and just kind of flailing over there. And I think that in all of that we do, the magic, like the magic secret, like silver bullet is self-awareness. Like, where am I at? At least for me anyway, where am I at today? Yeah. What it what do I and it's not about a goal set, what do I want to accomplish? It's just like, where do I, where am I at today? What kind of intention am I setting for the day? What kind of intention, like, how do I want to feel today? Now, look, that doesn't always make it 24 hours. Sometimes it makes it like 15 minutes, depending on what's going on, right? Because I'm a human and we're all humans. And I think that if there's anything that I would want to share with the listener, is find that time for yourself to really ask yourself questions of like who you are, like what's important to you, what do you really value, and how can you bring those values into the work that you do? And you know, to that question, what are some of the values that you have that you've identified in yourself that you're bringing into the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Ooh boy. That's a great question. Because I like while I have it, it's nothing I've like sat down and put into an organized list, right? So like I I care very much about the quality of my work and and making sure that it's as good as it can be. And I've always felt that way because early on in my career, I decided to treat myself like a business, right? Like um, if you create a brand of drink and you know, people taste your drink, like, oh great, I want to taste that again, right? So that's that's the experience I want uh to people have with me, right? Because uh a lot of people in IT, and I'm sure this is the same elsewhere, but they say, like, oh well, well, I'm not customer facing, right? Like, I do internal IT. And it's just like, well, you're always customer facing, right? Like you always have a customer. Um, so I want to make sure that anybody I interact with, they have a positive experience and they think of, oh, that's the person I want to work with next time around. It's it's very like, you know, like brand awareness, but for me personally.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yeah, just be the person that you wish you were dealing with, right? Right. In a professional sense. Yeah. Anyway. And I think that I'm one of the reasons that I think that you're such a great fit for what we're doing at Clover is is it is that you do bring that like you were a genuine pleasure to have around the field, right? And people look forward to seeing you there. There are times when I've been there and you haven't, they'd be like, Oh, where's AJ? I'm like, I mean, I don't know, he's not here every day. But they're like, but they notice when you're not around, which tells which says that they really value and respect you, but not for the pictures that you take. Right. Because most of them don't even see most of those pictures, they just see the one that gets up in Instagram or whatever. They don't they're not looking at the drive of all the million pictures that we have back there, right? They're just seeing and hearing your presence and knowing like, oh, this is a guy that I care that's around or not. Right. It's a I and you know, take that for the compliment it is.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yeah, I absolutely like I'm not there, I don't know that that happens, but thank you for sharing that. It's nice to hear.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Yeah, what um what kind of what have I missed? What am I missing here? What haven't I what haven't we talked about the mission?

SPEAKER_00 39:38

I I think that you know, we need to talk about the fact that we lived in the same neighborhood. Yeah. So actually, let me let me talk about that. Um because when I reached out to you, uh, we traded a few emails, and then you're just like, okay, let's let's talk on the phone tomorrow. And so I treated that like it was a very important interview, and maybe it wasn't, but to me it was. Um, and I researched you and I found that you had done uh another podcast, another interview on another podcast. So I immediately downloaded it and listened to it, and you talked about how you uh used to do these pickup games in a Burlington neighborhood referred to as Lakeside. And when I heard that, I was like, oh my god, like I grew up in Lakeside, like this is crazy. Um, but then then you also brought up several times throughout that show, you know, Vermonters helping Vermonters, and that was just a vibe that I really agreed with. Um, because there's just something special about this state, right? Like I've traveled so much for work, and every time I go somewhere, I always just want to come back to Vermont. Like it's there's just something really special about this place.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah, there's a certain gravity that it has.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Right. That kind of and it occupies a really kind of interesting place in the cultural whatever it is, the cultural patchwork, right? Like everybody's like, oh, Vermont, it's so great. And they don't like but when they think about Vermont, they're thinking about like Killington or they're coming to Stowe or what have you, or they're going hiking, and they it's like they come and dabble in Vermont, but they don't really they don't really know the thing. Right. And but there is a certain gravity that it has, and people you say, Oh, I live in Vermont, people like, oh yeah, Vermont, that's cool. It's like all right. It is, but all right. Um I think maybe it's because Vermont is a small state, both like geographically it's not so big, and also there aren't that many people here. So I think you know, with something like 600 people, 600,000 people, I think that it really does carry this small town vibe. And maybe you know this to be true as a person who has lived here for most of your life. Uh I I only came here as an adult, but there's like one to two degrees of separation with just about everybody.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Like really doesn't go a whole lot farther than that in in most cases that I find. And now it could be because I run in relatively small circles, that's possible. But I think that it's really I think it really is that small that kind of everybody knows everybody.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

And I like that. Uh, there's a certain awareness about that. And and to the point of the lakeside thing, that was the original Lakeside pickup game started. I can tell you when, 2002. I can tell you the people that started it. I wasn't a person who started it, I was a neighbor. I lived next door.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

So it started that summer because they moved into that place that summer and it was like, oh, we love to play soccer. Let's play in that park across there. And then that's how that game started. And it's been going, I think, pretty continuously ever since. And it was a cool game because it wasn't like all the best people. Like there weren't really a whole lot of very good players there that would come play in that pickup game at all. It wasn't about being the best soccer player, it was about just kicking the ball around and having a good time. And you know, sure, little kids, 10, 11, 12, 13, it'd show up and they would play and we would make sure that they felt included. We'd pass them the ball, you know, like that sort of thing. Because that is the point. Like if I wanted to at the time, I hadn't gone back to college yet, and it wasn't really playing at a highly competitive level like like I had earlier and like I did later. So if I wanted to go find like a good pickup game, I would go other places because it wasn't that's not what it was. It wasn't about like, oh, the best soccer. I'd go find out other places. But if I wanted to just chill out and play and kick around and like hang out with friends and like like kind of like role model the game a little bit to people, then like that's that that was there. It was cool. It Lakeside is a cool neighborhood. If for people who don't know Lakeside, um Bloodovins used to be there, the St. John's Club is there, and the the butt the bike path goes kind of around like on the one side of the park, right? And Harrison Ave is what it goes on. There's one of the very few places it's on the street, is Harrison Ave. And we lived on the part of Harrison Ave that the bike path goes on.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Okay. I'm trying to think uh what's the name of the place that occupies Plaga Ovens now? I can I can picture it. I worked there for a short time.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Uh uh uh you worked there and you can't remember the name?

SPEAKER_00 44:02

Well, I I didn't work for them, but it's it's a workspace sharing place, right? Like you can rent a desk and and go there and and work rather than the other. Oh, gotcha. Like a co-working kind of space. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's been a while since Blodget was there. Blodgett's been Blodget actually, not notwithstanding, the place that where everybody plays at Shelburne Fieldhouse, where Queen City plays and um uh Peak Football Club plays there, the Shelburne Fieldhouse, that was Blodgett Oven's also.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Oh, no kidding. Okay. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Yeah, so next time you walk in there, like I I'm sure Tim goes in there every once in a while for a game here and there session, just think of it as like they made ovens here and the whole layout of the place will make complete sense. Whereas it doesn't make any sense as a recreational space until you're like, you know, they have like there's that like you walk up and there's like that area up there, like the supervisor's area, and then you're you're actually playing on the factory floor.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense now. Um Hula. Hula is the place. Oh, Hula. Yeah. And it's really cool because if you go in there, they actually have a fully restored blodget oven sign in like one of their little like work nooks. And it's really, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Yeah, that is really cool. Why I wonder who I wonder who actually owns Hula. I guess it's not important. Um I think co-working spaces just generally are really neat. The co-working spaces. I had one down when I was running the beer company, I had one in Middlebury. Uh V C E T was who like rented that. I don't know how you say that acronym, because everybody likes an acronym, right? Yeah. Um and it was cool. I actually met some people that my kids later went to school with that like worked, like co-worked in that space. Okay. And it's cool because it's like you go in, you just flop down wherever. You need to have people in for a meeting, you just meet over here. Like you need to do like it's not like a space reserved. It's like you pay a certain amount of money to be able to go in there and get the Wi-Fi, basically.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Yeah, it's cool. It's a neat concept. It's like the old they used to be called internet cafes.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Where like it's a cafe, usually coffee, and then you you know you give them five bucks to get the Wi-Fi, and then like that you could work there because there was no like there wasn't just generally available internet like there is now.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Right? It was much more limited. Yeah, it's cool. Cool concept. And Burlington's cool, Vermont's cool. I'm trying to think about like Lakeside is awesome. I haven't been there in a dog's age. You remember how the I don't know what's there now, it might be part of Champlain College or it might be part of Dealer.com, but do you remember that that like the parking lot was just like a burned out post-industrial husk?

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

When the Champlain Farms was like that tiny little like piece of trash. Yeah. And then that parking lot was like you get nervous to walk from one from one end to the other because like I mean, and it was always cold, even when it was warm out.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Uh let's see. There's across the street from the Cumbies is like the Burlington Municipal Garage and some Burlington town offices. Before that, it was St. Johnsbury trucking.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Um, I know Champlain College is behind Cumberland Farms now. They have a building with some offices there.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yeah, the South End was way different back then. Yeah, way different. And like none of that stuff, except for the Christian bookstore. Basically, all that stuff, except for the school, is new, right? Yeah, and where Small Dog is, if you ever go down that way, for the listener, where Small Dog is, that used to be this like deli thing that was clicked. Red Roberts. Yeah, Red Roberts, that's right. And it was kind of falling down, but the sandwiches were good. Yeah, they were. They were really good down there. And it's complete the South, it's just Pine Street, it's completely different than it used to be. Yeah. Lake Champlain Chocolates was there for a long time, but it was like just like a factory.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Still there.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

No, it's dealer.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

Oh, oh, but but Lake Champlain Chocolates is still on Pine Street, just not where it was. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Where dealer has used to be Lake Champlain Chocolates. Yeah, that's right. When it was and they were just like making a lot of chocolate there. But all the rest of that stuff was basically like post-industrial. Yeah. And now it is over the last you know 15 years or 10 years or what have you, it is it has come way up. I mean, the only thing down there, the what is that called? Four corners of the earth deli? That's been there for the entire time. Kind of tucked back by the post office. Yep. It's not even the post office, actually, it's like where they do the deliveries. Like the mail trucks, distribution center, that's what you call them. And speeder and earls has been there for a very long time.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Oh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

But other than that, like, yeah, you could bring your recycling, and like the sidewalk wasn't complete. It was just like a dirt path. And I remember that because I didn't have a when we first moved up here, I didn't have a car. I either walk or ride my bike if I wanted to go into town. So I remember like I remember Pine Street real vividly from we lived down there. And that Combies was, I mean, all the like nothing south of that was there anymore. It was the school. It was like the school. Yeah. It's all new. All of that stuff is redone in in the last what 15 years probably.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Yep. All all new. Like there's a ton of breweries and restaurants and all sorts of stuff popping up down in Pine Street now.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Yeah, it's awesome now. And it used to just not be. But Lakeside's always been like a neighborhood with heart. And the St. John's Club has always been fun. I think that was always fun.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Yeah. Yeah. So I I remember listening to that podcast and hearing like all of these things that you know you and I kind of like either had in common or the potential close encounters we we could have had. Uh and I was kind of thinking like not that I necessarily had to pitch to you, but I feel like I had to pitch to you the idea of like what I wanted to do and getting you okay with the idea of me coming around. Uh I just kind of felt like I I had so many connections to what you were saying in the clover message, and and also just having having been in some of the same places, like I could relate to you enough that I felt like I could successfully pitch to you what I wanted to do with the team.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yeah, it didn't come as a big surprise when I was like, yeah, man, that sounds awesome. Basically, right straight away.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah, yeah, it did. It did.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Yeah. I uh I like to think that every conversation I have is probably the most a conversation, the most important conversation I've ever had. You know, like I I really mean that. Like I it's like when I'm when I'm when I'm calling somebody on the phone, because I'm a big texter, as you know, when I'm talking to somebody on the phone, like that means something to me.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Right. And I want it to like I want them to recognize and I want them to feel how important they are to me in that moment when I'm talking to them on the phone. Because like we don't live in a world where people pick up the phone anymore. When I was a kid, like that was how you got in touch with someone or you yelled, right? Yeah, you know, come home for dinner. But now it's just like we just text, and I t I'm texting all day, every day. Like I'm texting a million people, a million things all the time. So, like, that's like my trash throwaway communication, if that makes any sense. Yeah. But a phone call and the fact that you wanted to have a phone call about the thing and you wanted to, like, hey, here's my plan, like that was cool. And then you put a lot of thought into it because I kind of expected you had kind of alluded to it a little bit, but I kind of expected, yeah, I just want to take pictures, which would have been also fine. But the fact that you had this real coherent idea, like that's cool. And I like things that are like that, that are like, I don't know exactly how this is gonna turn out, but this is the idea I have. Like, as you know, I'd be I'm just interested in a lot of things, and that's just that's the sort of thing that just really piques my interest. Like, I can't wait to see this thing whenever it's done. I and I realize I'm just gonna extend the season here, so you know it's not gonna happen until November or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Yeah, I know, I gotta get working on it, honestly. But there's still so much to take pictures of.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Well, yeah, and we've got all sorts of stuff coming up too, right? Like we got the end of the season, we got the playoffs, we got the women's team, we got um, you know, some some like we got like the Shacksbury Cup coming, so we have some exhibition kind of games, and we've got hopefully this new England Cup thing happens, which will keep us playing you know, weekly through the end of July, basically, which would be you know, so like there's a there's a lot more, I hope.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Awesome, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Yeah. Um I also really appreciate that you bring Tim around sometimes. I think that that's really cool. I've always wanted this thing to be a family thing.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

You know, my family helps out in the games, like I I've always wanted it to be a family thing that's important to me. I want it to be for families, so it's gotta start with us, right?

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Yeah, I I appreciate the opportunity to bring him around. Um, you know, practices happen late at night, so I don't bring him around all the time, but usually like during school breaks or something, uh I'll check in with Brian to make sure that's okay that he comes around. Um, and it's really cool to see the players give him their time. You know, it's it's their time to be practicing, but you know, if if Tim's around and interacting, like I I've seen Lute give my son uh his time, right? Like Tim uh put on his goalie gloves and he walked up, he's like, Hey, I see you're warming up. Can I warm up with you? You know, I'm a goalie too. And they they welcomed him right in. And you know, Lute took the time to kind of like teach him how to fall correctly and how to land on the ball, like you know, and all this other stuff. And Tim Tim remembers that stuff, right? And uh Oliver um also gave Tim some time, and and I think because of that, because they've interacted and played and kind of goofed around with each other, like Oliver is like Tim's one of Tim's favorite players, right? Like, yeah, yeah. So when Oliver was out for a little bit, like uh like I don't know if he's sick or injured or something, but he wasn't starting, or there was a game that he played and he came out like within the first five or ten minutes. Um, my wife texted me from the sidelines and she's like, Tim needs to know is Oliver okay?

SPEAKER_01 53:38

I dude, that's so cool. Like, I mean, your family, which makes your family family, right? Like, that's kind of how that goes. And I think I don't want to speak for the guys, but I'm sure that they feel the same way, right? Yeah, they're warm and they're welcoming, and and I love that he just wanted to make sure he was okay. It's like I don't care if we win this game or not, but like I mean, make sure my guy's okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Yeah, yeah, he he was sick. I mean, he's still kind of sick. It's crazy, you know, crazy, crazy thing going on with him. But he's getting better.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

I mean, he played Yeah, I saw he played this past weekend.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Yeah, half an hour, which is or not quite half an hour, which is a lot more than he's been able to play the last couple weeks. So hopefully he'll be back soon.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

I mean, there was a while that I mean he was on a tear at the beginning of the season. But this is the this is the frailty of this is the frailty of everything that we do, right? It's here one moment and then it's gone the second.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Right. Um Yeah, what else what else have we missed, man? We're almost getting to our time here, but what have we missed? I don't want to leave uh stones unturned.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Man, I I don't know. I think we we covered quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

Yeah, we learned that your name is Alan James or Alan Jr. This is an important thing. Yeah, yeah. So you know, on that note, maybe we can say goodbye to our listeners and thank them for coming and invite them to come next week as well.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Yeah, and if if uh if you've been anybody that's like started following me online, if uh I I just really appreciate all the support uh and I and getting the opportunity to share you know the progression and in these photos and stuff. Um so thank you to to everyone following Clover and and me.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Yeah, where do we find you at AJ Murray Photography?

SPEAKER_00 55:17

Uh yeah, so ajmurrayphotography.com and Instagram aj.murrayvt.

SPEAKER_01 55:23

Aj.murrayvt. Ajmurrayphotography.com.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Go check it out. Helps him out. Helping him out helps us out. Helping him out helps you out too. It will add to the overall quality of your life, I promise. And on that note, you all have a wonderful day. Catch us next time. Thanks again.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

That's gonna do it for today's episode of the Pink and Green Podcast. A huge thank you to our guests for joining us and sharing their story. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and leave us a review. It helps more people discover the growing soccer community here in Vermont. You can follow Vermont Clover FC and the Pink and Green Podcast on social media for updates, match coverage, and behind-the-scenes content throughout the season. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Until then, keep supporting local soccer and keep the game growing.