SPEAKER_02 0:25

No, Michael said that too about how we because we were asking about like the difference between playing at Castleton and with Clover, and he was talking about how like Brian kind of like here's the idea, here's about how you want to do it, but he like trusts us to go do the thing. And that's like you got good players, so you can, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Well, I mean, you and I even uh you and I even had a chance to to talk about it. That's that's a hundred percent right. You know, I've I very rarely have I you know been in a uh a situation in in an 8-10 or U-12 game where I can kind of give some wide open freedom other than an idea of the day and and and have players kind of understand exactly what we're up to, even though we might have trained for it the last three and a half weeks, you know, to be able to talk about a system of play or or walk through it and and then beat it up, right? Because they all played in other systems of play and they all had a chance to learn that system of play in other ways. So then to adapt, you know, my thoughts and reasoning are are quite honestly, I think, that of a of a very intelligent player, because sometimes we're asking them to play systems a little differently and definitely a little more aggressively than I fancy that they've been they've had the opportunity to work within. So it's it's fun to see them, you know, we we find that we find a happy medium, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah. All right, let's do this intro.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Welcome to the Pink Tory Podcast, where we explore the rise of Vermont soccer through the lens of community culture and the game itself, featuring stories from Vermont Clover FC. Join us as we talk with players, coaches, and the people shaping the future of the game in the market. Welcome to the Pick and Green podcast. I am AJ Murray, and believe it or not, I'm Chris George. You are still Chris George every morning, even after everything we've been through. You are still Chris George every morning. How are you doing today, Chris?

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Doing fantastic. I am here's what's on my mind today. Bicycle racing, specifically world tour, like grand tour races. Okay Giro d'Italia, the Tour de France, and then La Vuelta Espana at the end of the season. I love bicycle racing. And I I like the drama of it, first of all. But what I really like about it is it happens early, and I'm kind of a morning person. It's in Europe, so you pop that thing on in the background and it like kind of gets you to lunch. And when the and you can kind of just listen to it, and then when the exciting stuff happens, you can pop over and look at it, and then you can watch guys like maybe this is exciting only to me, but watching guys climb up mountains on bicycles, like that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

I love I absolutely love it, and it kind of paces the summer, right? So the Jiro happens in May, and then the tour happens in July. It's usually going on the 4th of July and Bestial Day and all that stuff, and then in August is when the is when the Love Welta happens.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yeah. Gotcha. Not something I follow, but sounds fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Yeah. What's on your mind today?

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Uh haircut. I tell you what, man. I just I desperately need a haircut. I have one this afternoon. Uh I'm pretty excited about it. Uh we're very busy at work. We have a customer-facing conference coming up. And so this past week has just been meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting. Uh, and I've been on a marathon of meetings since I got home from the gym this morning. So yeah, I'm I'm very relieved to be on here with you right now. And I'm very excited to talk to our guest today. Uh, our guest today is Brian Buchek. He's the director of player personnel and head coach for Vermont Clover. He was also the head coach for 12 years of Vermont uh Vermont State University Johnson, two-time conference coach of the year, 100 career wins in the JSC Hall of Fame Inductee. He was also the head coach for Stowe High School, six-time Vermont State Champions, two Capital Division Coach of the Year, two-time VSCA small coach of the year, 86 career wins and one undefeated season. He is also the founder and director of coaching for Vermont United Soccer Academy for the past 11 years. Brian, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Thank you very much, AJ. It's great to be a part. Hi, Chris. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Yeah. We're uh I does it make you blush a little when you hear all that stuff said all together at one time.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

I'm um uh yes, uh yes, it makes me kind of sound probably a little older than I am. Uh but unbelievably grateful. There's a heck of a lot of players and coaches and family members that went into that whole batch of of greatness. Um and so so fun. The the memories uh from all the schools and the players. Um I always say I'm the richest guy in the world.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Yeah, there's some something about coaching, right, that um makes you feel that the wealth in the soul.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

I think it's really cool that uh I've posted a few pictures of of you from the games and stuff on Instagram, and I I always get your past players commenting. Uh that there was the one shot where you're you're sitting with Lute on the bench, and I called it the pep talk. And uh a few of a few of the guys were just like, Oh yeah, I know that look. I remember that talk. I saw I thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Oh, it's so it's so special. I I'm uh because of Vermont Clover, um uh connecting with uh another player, um Simon Perkins from southern Vermont, and he was a a part of a Middlebury group that I had a chance to be with and a phenomenal. I'm gonna say young man. He's not a young man anymore. He's got children, and um, but just yeah, the you know, I was an only child growing up, so this is all my brothers and sisters. I I I couldn't feel feel more blessed.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

That's awesome. So uh to kick things off, uh I would love to understand how Brian came to be, you know, where he is today, the the head coach of Vermont Clover. Uh, you know, what's what's the connection between, I guess, you you know, you and Chris? And um was this a position that a bunch of coaches applied for? Was just this, I mean, looking at the resume, it sounds like if you guys had any connection prior to Clover, it was just kind of like a well duh, you know, this is who we're gonna ask to do this thing. So how how did that all happen?

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Uh so when I was doing when when when Clover started to happen after Trey and I talked and when it was starting to become a reality, I had a lot of conversations with a lot of people, some whom I knew really well and and had connections to, and some of whom I didn't know quite as well. And Brian was one of those people that we've we had connections through Paul Smith's and just come from being around Vermont soccer for a long time, but we didn't know each other that well. It was more by reputation than anything. And so I called him up kind of in the context of some PSC talk, uh Paul Smith's talk, because Brian's an alum from there, and I coach there, and I was like, I'm thinking about this thing, what do you think? And we had a lot of conversation about it. And then when I was working through who uh should be the coach of this thing, there was really only one person that I thought of, and that was Brian. And I'll tell you why, is because I knew that what I wanted Clover to be was something that was really kind of player first and love focused, right? And and that's a that's a thing that Brian does better than I think just about anybody, is to build an environment that's really demanding, but it's he leads with love and he gets and because of that, his players are super bought into it. And I knew if we were gonna do this project right in the way that I wanted to, we needed to have everybody kind of on board for what the project was, which is put Vermont first, put players first, and you know, so guys are building these relationships with each other. And so I called Brian and said, Okay, here's really what it is. Do you want to coach it? And that's kind of how we got here. And you know, he thought about it. And I mean, I don't know what's what is what what's your side of that, Brian?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

I had no idea you'd ask me to be a part of it. Um I I I was I was excited to be a part of the conversation as far as you know what my thoughts were, um, and kind of you know, filling me in on some of the nuances and and kind of how you were gonna pull it together. But I I have to say, I think that's where my I thought that's kind of where our conversation was gonna end. So then to mention ask if if it would be something I was interested in, I I you know, I'm a I'm a state New York guy that grew up in the middle of nowhere, went to smaller schools, um, and that uh has uh how do I say I I I've just always loved what I've done and was not necessarily sure if there would ever be an opportunity, something like this. And as you get a little older, um and to have this opportunity, but then to believe in it so much, it just it was incredible. It was, you know, as as I've said, I think in the past it was it was like that first coaching job or that that first win or that i i was just over the moon and elated to be able to like I mean and unbelievably super humbled to be thought of in that realm. There's amazing coaches in the state. Uh Chris, you're a very, very good coach. Shane is a very, very good coach. Uh I work with a lot of good coaches, so to be able to be a part is I I I I feel honored and and uh and uh like I want to do a great job every day.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, well, I mean you do, I think. At least if the players can be believed, you know, that which is really the most important thing. And winning helps. I a thing that I think about sometimes is that players in Vermont, they just really have no idea how good they have it from a quality of coaching perspective. There are a lot of good coaches in Vermont, a real lot. And not every kid is exposed to a great coach, but there are the quality, right? Like you can almost run into one by accident, and it is not like this as many places for as few players that we have, there are so many good coaches.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

And so many are dedicated. I mean, they'll coach in their high school, they're coaching college, and they're coaching club, or they're a part of Sporting Vermont, or they're you know, they're they're or they're aspiring to to you know to get to that next level. It's just uh they're littered throughout. I feel like in my, you know, you know, since the late 90s, I and and great mentors, you know, everybody's kind of for the most part willing to put their arm around you to make sure that it gets better. It's it's a it's a great, it's a great community. It really is. And and now that it's benefit, I think it's benefiting the players uh more and more. Um, I mean, I think of where we started back in the day with like Nordic Spirit, but I'm talking like like Pete DeMarco Nordic Spirit days and and some of those founding members to kind of where soccer is uh now in the state. It's it's it's unbelievable. It's it's it's it's it's grown to such a level uh and the players are so good. I think that's the thing that probably just I'm sorry I'm spitballing here, but I think that's the thing that surprised me the most about the the the team's makeup is how many just really, really good ball players we have from the state right now, and how competitive we are.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, the level is unbelievable. And like even the guys that are like not as good or really good players, right? That's the that's I that that kind of funny thing. And and the truth is we couldn't be doing this if they weren't as good as they are on a level of like, you know, as good as all the other people in New England, right? We just wouldn't be able to do it. So I you know, I believe I believe in the work that we've all been doing to kind of raise these guys up, even though none of them or very few of them have played for me or or have played for you, but just collectively, we as a as a coaches in Vermont have like kind of raised these guys up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Yeah.

unknown 12:47

Yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Brian, I want to talk to you about how you feel this season is going. Uh, you know, when this thing first started, I I I've I've more or less been there, you know, since the first week of training. And I remember having a conversation with you the the last practice before the first game. And it it was kind of like, whoo, that was a tough practice session. Uh, you know, didn't didn't really have super high hopes uh going into the first game. And then uh, you know, we came back with uh what was it five, five to one or one to five win? Um and now here we are today, you know, we're a couple games left of the regular season. We've already secured our spot for postseason. Uh and what what are we like seven and one? Uh so what's what's the journey been like for you? What what was your kind of expectation walking into this thing versus you know the reality of where we are today?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Uh I mean, from what a great question. And I think in the beginning it was okay, what are the who are the guys going to be? What does it look like? Um, and then we kind of moved from one phase of of playing on the far post side in training uh with like a core, uh but guys coming in and out of let's call it 30. And then we we moved over uh to forever summer and things changed. Now all of a sudden uh holidays happen, so we're starting to see some some private school guys, uh breaks are happening, so we're seeing some college guys, and and now the landscape uh is is really changed. Now we're we're we're training somewhere like 50, 60, 70 different different players. And you know, we're we haven't had the opportunity to get outside other than like just a couple of times and and trying to figure out who who that group is that's going to play the night before. I'm going to be very honest. I was I was nervous and training was tense, and you know, uh I could feel that it was it was tense, it was tense with the guys. And afterwards we got around uh in a circle after that training, and I said, okay, guys, you know, uh, you know, based on what we've worked on, what are we what what are we thinking about tonight? What are we thinking about our our our first game? And kind of everybody had some really phenomenal things to say, very intelligent. But one one player, uh uh Sean Butler said, uh, yeah, to have fun. And boy, I I you know, I left practice that day thinking we was just really fun all the way up until this time where it got tense, and we were talking about a matter of of of of yards when it came to defensive position about something. And I remember going home and thinking to myself, wow, that's really kind of well, everybody kind of said their piece, and when he said that, everybody kind of nodded. And and so you know, I took that as a as as geez, going into tomorrow's match, let's let's not be so let's not be so tight in the keister. And when we had a chance to be on the road and have individual meetings, and I thought we really got a chance to individually with each player discuss, you know, what it is that's working and what it is that we wanted to do, and and uh we were really able to to execute. And so uh, you know from that time, AJ, to where we are now, you know, we've had a chance to get through some adversity, we got a chance to to take a loss. Uh, we had a chance in that game to to deal with some some things that that you know might not happen in other games, uh and then to to bounce back and and play an okay first half and a phenomenal second half. And I feel like we're we're back on the not necessarily winning ways, but uh, you know, like clicking on all cylinders. Uh and you know, we used some some new players, which is an ever, ever a never-ending kind of story uh that came in and made a phenomenal impact in the in the second half um against the Boston team. So goodness, where where we kind of started and where we are now, I I almost feel like we're in the best kind of uh we're vibing right now, like we're in the best uh feeling of of where we've been in in the season. Uh we're you know, excited to to to play at seven o'clock on Sunday in Falmouth, and and you know, re reclaim our territory, you know, up in Maine. And uh just just to to now get ready, get ready for for playoffs and and and uh start to start to work on some things and and the scouting kind of picks up a little more. But I I think that, you know, personally where we are right now today, I feel really good. Um, really good about about where we're at as a team. And I think how the coaching staff is, although we didn't really know one another other than Lou and I, that we're kind of very honest and and and very forthright in how we feel. The players are uh it feels to me we we talk to them very plainly uh about things like why we subbed you out or uh or why I subbed you out and why you're going in. And and so um, you know, you can't make all the people happy all the time, but at least they know what's going on, and there's no there's no uh there's no kind of gray area, if you will. And I think the more we can focus on trying to get better every day and being successful and being gritty, um uh I I think uh it's hard to beat a team twice. And I'm I'm very excited about our matches going forward. Most important one, of course, being Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 18:21

Yeah, yeah. Um, I I gotta ask you, what goes through your head as you're building the roster? Because I mean, I I've said this a hundred times in this podcast, and I'll say it again. I'm not an athlete, but when I look at everybody during practice and playing games, there there's a ton of talented people here. So how do you narrow that down? How do you get to 11 uh out of the the pool that we've got?

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Well, that's you know, that's that's the impossible chore. Uh, because you know, number one, you're leaving players home that that could start and maybe have started and maybe even have points for the team. And so it's a it's a it's a feeling and it's it's really as as what is what does Wednesday look like? You know, what does Monday look like? Um now it's it's okay. What is working? Um and it's okay to uh to to be uh disruptive in that process. And what I mean by that is where everyone feels very challenged uh and honored to be able to make one of those 20 spots. And then if if you're lucky enough to get the nod in the starting 11, to know that your time on the field uh depends on how effective we are with you there. Not all the time, sometimes it's just a personnel change that needs to be made, but no, that's that's of course that's the hardest, AJ. That's the hardest decision. On any given day, we probably can make two full teams of players that could go after just about anybody, and um that's that's a wonderful problem to have as yeah, as well as a tough one at times.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Sure, sure. Um I I want I want to make a comment on something, and and then I'm curious, you know, what was this by design? So I I've seen uh I've done a lot of like you know, corporate training, leadership stuff. Um, a lot of high performing teams build in this kind of intentional null holes bar feedback session, right? Like they're not afraid to tell each other like what I really thought of your performance, how you could improve, and that's how collectively everybody gets better. And I see a lot of that happening uh, you know, at the halftime huddles, at the end of the game, everybody's uh really giving some solid feedback. Hey, next time you pass to me, do this, or you know, I really need you to do that, you know, when you're playing this section of the field. Is this something that you kind of built intentionally, or is just this something the guys just kind of started doing?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Just earlier today, uh solving a problem uh with an another group of people, it really just came down to communication and uh making sure that everybody feels like they had their moment to speak, that they've they've been heard, that they've uh now uh you have the opportunity to see things through their perspective. So, you know, with 11 players on the field and another, you know, X amount waiting in the wings to get in, to some extent, I've I feel like uh a collective voice is better than one. And a lot of times when the players solve our struggle in communication with a mediator, it really is more effective than sitting there and being told. Now we have to be cerebral and we together have to form an opinion on what that particular person is saying. One of the highlights of those particular uh uh meetings uh is really uh making sure that we're all on the same page and then being able to, as the coaching staff, kind of bring in that maybe sage advice or or that you know everything you're saying is completely right, and then you're adding kind of your piece. And that way now you've solved personally, you've solved the psychological battle. Now we can kind of break it down in the tactical piece because we you're right. I I could probably play the ball quicker, you know. Uh yeah, yeah, uh and all of a sudden you're starting to to to look at the game, and now we're starting to feel. figure out a way tactically, you know, what we're going to do to thwart that or what we're going to do to to be a bit more offensive minded. And there and I think that's when you get the most out of it when when everybody's communicating on solving that problem, the buy-in becomes the buy-in becomes more like a fist than than all of us separated an island and just hearing somebody babble.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Yeah, that this is the other thing about working with good, high level and more mature players, right? Is if I say to if I say to you, hey, I really need the ball right on my foot versus a yard ahead, I look at that and like, all right, that's what I'm going to do next time versus that's a referendum on how good I am as a passer or as a person or as a player, right? They're all in it for the same thing. They all want to win. They all want to get better. They all want to help each other get better. And they all want to make each other look better, right? They're all like really committed to making everybody look good. So they're all in it for the same thing. So they may have a disagreement that they're easy to work out because they're all coming from the same place. One thing I was really impressed with that kind of is about this at halftime of the of the the last game that we played against um against Boston Street, two of the guys um Henry and and Miles, right? So in the first half, Henry was kind of struggling about like with what runs he should make when he should make them and kind of keying off the four right playing in that more advanced midfield position. And he was and he and Miles had been talking a little bit during the game like from 30 yards apart right like Miles was saying hey I need to hear or whatever and they would just weren't on the same page. And in halftime the two of them were sitting together and having this like really deep conversation about like no you're queuing off this when this is happening because I'm looking at this and the and the like the two of them like with their fingers just like this talking and kind of getting each other through like how is the best way to be for each other not I need you like this or I need you like that. It's how can we be the best together so that we're all working from the same page. And I thought that that was really, really cool. And what I've been really impressed with is with you and why I knew you were right right from the beginning is that you create an environment where that's allowed to happen. Right. It's explicitly not just allowed but explicitly encouraged. You trust those guys to be smart about it and to work through that and give them the space to do it rather than telling them exactly what to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I've always found it just it just builds continuity because it's okay to be wrong. It's okay to be wrong. It's we're just trying to we just need to be right once we just need to try to solve it and and I I you know Chris you you've experienced this uh even substitutions. You know I got in my mind knew I would play in a in that next spot but I want to kind of know the people around me what's your thoughts and why um and again I'm okay with being wrong. I would have been I would have probably been wrong on Saturday uh or right in a different way as the way that I would put it but um you know we we just kind of we just kind of talked it through with with um with Al and and turned out to work out all right.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah and that's another great quality right as we if you want to be a good coach or a good player you need to be really self-aware right that worked and here's why that didn't work and here's why and you know a thing that doesn't work out is really just an opportunity to get it right the next time it's not like oh my gosh I'm a terrible coach because I made a bad substitution it's like all right I tried this thing I thought it was going to work a certain way it worked a different way and you know moving on to the next thing right it's and you need it's an in it's an interesting quality to have where you need to be really like able to move on quickly but kind of keep that in the back of your mind for like how am I going to do it different the next time right it's like the the post evaluation of the thing.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Brian I want to talk about uh the the Boston Emeralds game it was our our first loss of the season uh the the there's a saying that I've heard that I really uh I really love uh you can have a great life or you can have a good character rarely can you have both at the same time was was this loss something that Vermont Clover maybe needed or could benefit from well there's never a loss that's needed AJ you know I look back uh I look back there's a few things that I think I could have done to to to help us out a little bit I think uh we played as well as we could that day uh they played as well as they could on that day and they were the the better team after reviewing the game I I have some some questions uh but those are not questions for now those will be questions for later and uh I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to the opportunity to get a chance to play them another time. Yeah absolutely how do you think the the guys kind of took took that I mean it it seems like they kind of took it in stride there was the you know I as I walked around the pitch and and in the huddles and stuff there was some obvious like uh you know kind of stuff but it it didn't seem like it took very long for them to to start to move forward.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Well on to the next one you know it's uh the what's the what's the old saying you might have won the battle but we're out to win the war kind of idea and so you know uh uh uh regular we're really excited to put ourselves in an opportunity to match up with them another time yeah absolutely I uh wanna know or I'm curious about what has been the most surprising part of the whole process for you oh the most surprising part the buy-in for the guys top to bottom uh and their determination has been unbelievably impressive I knew that was going to be there but I didn't realize to the extent I would say that first I would say second I am impressed with how organized it is from where I sit as well as uh everything that you do Chris uh and you know kind of our social media and handling player relations I think it's it's unbelievably impress uh professional and the guys feel that way and so from a coaching standpoint when when the administrative part is so solid and the communication is solid we speak so much that um it feels very seamless in its first year that is very surprising to me and then I would say um I would say overall the the the um the dedication of the of the coaches and the the dedication to kind of everybody around us from um teo's mom helping out at the at the stand to the to our to our guys that are helping put put chairs and and tables out and helping you in game day operations aj's AJ being around to document everything from the the from everything to where we're at as a podcast it's just really a a phenomenal professional organization to be a part of and um it's probably then the most impressive I thought it was going to be a little more fly by the seat of our pants but it's it's it's not even close to that.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Yeah we're trying um sometimes it feels like we're flying at night with our sunglasses on but we always find a way to land the plane um Brian what else do we need to to know do you have any big plans you can share with us is is there anything um you know that that maybe caught you off guard this year what what what what what what goes on in your head throughout the course of the season as things have gone along I mean I'm so excited that we're seven and one uh the chatter uh in the soccer community is super fun I don't I don't think um I I think uh the comments that I get from friends is it they're they're like I can't believe so and so is playing I remember when he played or hey does so and so does this particular player is he gonna have a shot at some point you know it's um it's now uh uh families uh that I know through club soccer are asking a lot of questions excited of that that there's a there's another opportunity um you know sometimes I'm gonna I'm gonna say it feels surreal that we're we're we're doing kind of what we're doing in this market and and having the impact I do I feel like we're getting better every day I think we've we've done some things to be a little more efficient in our training with the with the starters right before big matches and I think that's going to make sure that our focus is is uh is super sharp and you know Sunday's the most important game of the season uh a victory there puts us one step closer to to uh you know getting ourselves into a position to be the the best team in New England and and prove it outright yeah it's it's been really important for me to have that kind of open dialogue not just with you but with everybody because organizationally I want to not make not have the same challenge twice or not make the same mistake twice or whatever. So when somebody says hey this I really want to try to plan for for that thing. So when you know you guys came and said hey I think we need to change this a little bit for training so that we can do this I'm like okay like what can we do to make that happen and try to make that happen to the degree that we're able that's been a really important thing for me. And it came up before that that open and honest feedback we have a with my team at Paul Smith we have a rule that we call radical honesty which is to say that anything I'm saying to anybody at any time like I would say that I'm too and guys appreciate how kind that is even if it isn't always the nicest thing because you can look a guy in the eye and be like that did not work at all for you and they say yep I know it didn't right they know the truth but they know that you're not saying that to other people and not saying that to them right so and and we have that right it's so important right if somebody if somebody feels like oh this isn't working and I wouldn't say that to Chris well like then I'm doing something wrong from a from an organizational leadership perspective.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

I don't know AJ I'm just pumped to be a part uh I I don't know anybody who's excited to go to a nine o'clock to eleven o'clock practice at night and I'm I'm sometimes I take a nap beforehand sometimes I walk to lake beforehand I mean it's for me I'm I'm over the moon I'm like you know that this is this is great I'm never a part where I'm like I can't believe I got a little practice this late I'm I'm just like I can't believe all the guys show up and we're gonna have a you know we're gonna have a uh yeah I I I could I'm over the moon everything um I'm excited about Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Yeah um I I think it's worth noting too you're you're not a a Burlington local you you've got a little bit of a hull on there to to get to practices to get to and from practices. I live a mile away from the lifts at still that's that's a halt to Burlington um at nine o'clock at night um and and then back home after that after 10 3011 um for for our listeners if if anybody's you know finding this podcast maybe they haven't been to uh watch one of our our games yet how would you describe you know your coaching philosophy oh well we're uh we're a fun team to watch uh we want to transition quickly quickly and get into the other team's uh offensive uh area uh if we can do it with the ball on the ground great if it's if it's uh in in other ways that that works for me uh as well we're a f uh we've scored a ton of goals we've scored the most goals in the in in the league um and uh we play in a high pressure situation so you know that sometimes will expose us so their transition happens fairly quickly as well so if you're if if you're coming to games and and you're looking for a team that's that's gonna knock it around the back for for 80 minutes that we're not your go um we hope the other team wants to do that for sure um but uh oh we're playing into you know checking attacking players and and trying to to to advance the ball on the strong and weak side and and we've got the players to do it so it's it's really a fun fast game to to to get a chance to watch it's it's it's the one I like to play as well to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

So I'm kind of um if I'm gonna sit there for 90 minutes we might as well have fun.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

I want to ask this next next question because I'm thinking that you know future potential players for Clover are going to be listening to this podcast because they kind of want to learn like what goes on behind the scenes and and uh you know maybe some some tips and tricks that they can learn to help make the team so what what traits do you look for in a player that don't show up on a stat sheet uh first of all what kind of teammate are you you know are you're uh that would be number one uh if you're brand new to the scene are you are you kind of making friends are you're I mean making friends just introducing yourself uh what's your attitude like or what's your body language like uh how do you interact with myself and the coaching staff uh are you looking us in the eye is it a firm handshake uh when I try to engage you do you do you want to communicate or are we shutting down um and then you know then and then there's the next piece uh to be fair usually people that are I'm able to communicate with because in this setting it's a lot of one on one time I mean there's there's team talk but really to get your point across with you know strategy or things that they need to kind of work through to stay in the starting lineup or to to earn a spot in the starting lineup those are individual conversations and you know of course they need to be able to to to do what you're asking of course but they you know how are they receiving that information how is those discussions happening I would say for younger players um you know once once you get kind of to us everybody's uh there's not a lot of difference there's uh you know maybe some superpowers that some kids have over others maybe there's a speed or a strength or their ability on the the ball or with their back to the a player or their scoring ability I mean there's so many so many variations but who they are as a human being and and as a person are they worrying are the are they when the going gets tough are they pointing their fingers or are they uh you know taking some looks at themselves and how they can improve stuff so in a very small amount of time character is is is huge absolutely um I would say probably is as as important as your your ability uh your ability to play because you we have to be cohesive uh you know there's always going to be some bickering and things like that but at the end of the day we still need to be we still need to be one um and so yeah you know uh work as hard as you can uh practice when no one's watching you know uh figure out the things that aren't that great in your game try to get better at those you know I would say your physical fitness piece is probably more more than you think it should be you should you should go and do more um and uh you know do you need weights and trainers sure you could have those but you know 100 to 250 pushups and sit-ups and different variations could get you there making sure that you get road work sleep you know it's it's how you take care of your body it's it's it's all a big thing Chris knows you know because of the college game and and the short amount of time you've got to play 20 games and and have athletes heal up and and and be a part of something you know that's special all those pieces not just athletic ability have have to be on on the same page yeah I think that's one of the things that really surprises players at every new level they go up and I don't mean going from 13 to 14 to 15 but going from the club game into the college game or going from the college game into this game where you're playing against players that are older and more experienced and kind of more physically capable than you are is the level of physicality gets way way bigger way faster. You know you go from playing I and just I think it's a real big challenge. And why we're why we do that futures program is it's a big challenge because you spent your entire life playing against kids that are basically your same age year older year younger same age as you and then you show up as this brand new can barely grow hair on your face 18 year old and you're playing against grown men right and you're competing for spots against grown 22 23 and you look at our team we're generally younger we got a few older guys you know we got a couple of guys over 25 we got a couple of guys that are you know 22 or 23 and mostly we're like 18 19 20 and the level of physicality between and the teams we play against are 25 26 right so the level of physicality between a guy who's 26 years old and a guy who's 20 years old is like night and day. Right and and soccer people forget because we focus on the kicking and the passing and whatever soccer is a running game with occasional kicking. It is not a kicking game with occasional running it is a running game with occasional kicking I mean at the top level guys are getting something like a hundred touches in 90 minutes is like one touch a minute is not very much that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

I mean B I mean I think you know talking about three minutes of three minutes of actual play.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Yeah and the rest you're just walking around or you're sprinting around or you're you know like it's it's wild how little you touch the ball in a game that you're completely focused on.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Yeah and I think people take for granted and and and for young players too like being able to physically play soccer is kind of the price of admission to the next level and then your attitude really defines your success because attitude compounds over and over and over again. If you show up with a bad attitude and you keep a bad attitude you just don't get any better you get worse and guys don't want to play with you. If you show up maybe you're not quite as good as that guy but you show up with a great attitude and you're focused on making the people around you better and you're focused on making yourself better. You get better fast and guys want to play with you so they invest in you because you're investing in them. I that's the one piece of advice that I would give to young players is be willing like invest in the guys around you because the guys around you are going to make you look good or they're not yeah I mean you know a lot of times 17 18 19 are uh are the guys that the the guys on the team like the best well and the difference between who is player let's say a roster of 20 right you're not taking a guy who's talented but hard to handle as guy 19 or 20. You're taking a guy that you know is going to be rock solid emotionally going to be a great teammate who's gonna be happy to be on the ride even if he's gone to Maine for a 7 p.m game and not getting back at 2 a.m and not complain about only getting five minutes or not getting any minutes at all. You want a guy that's just show up like all team right and I mean I just want to take a moment to highlight one of the guys in the player pool Busby that guy is all clover in his heart right like this guy is I mean he shows up and he helps at games that he's not in the game section for you know takes a long ride he knows there's not going to be tons of minutes for him and you know that's a guy that's incredibly valuable to the to the whole thing even if he's not one of the best 20 soccer players on a day-to-day basis right yeah he's a he's a phenomenal phenomenal person great great great character on the team high work rate can't say enough positive things about him right love that guy and you know our hope is that he'll stick around and he'll be a part of the organization for a long time in the future right and we you know we've started to talk to him about that possibly you know help him maybe get into coaching and you know because I think he'd be an incredible coach and you know that's another thing that the original the original question was what's the advice you'd give to young players and it's like what we the guys we like are guys that we look at and we're like oh he'd be an incredible coach someday right they understand what it takes to be successful the work rate things like that it's the lead it's a leadership thing right not that you'd ever necessarily not that you're necessarily gonna have to make that choice but think about if you're gonna be the coach and kind of apply that to your playing Brian I I wanna I want to dig a little deeper into into Brian um what can can can you tell me a couple of defining moments that kind of helped shape the way that you coach boy that's uh boy from a coaching perspective I I I was you know Brad Orway Shane Barton um Greg Borsillary Peter Albright those were my my high school and and college coaches and they they were just great men first who happened to know a little bit about soccer um uh Peter Albright probably helped me the most understand the game more tactically I would say and then yeah uh you know being around Vermont Soccer School and David Sayward and and Peter and and a whole bunch of other great coaches really, really helped me.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Uh John Warner was a was a mentor of mine very early on but you know my first year I was 23 years old there was guys that I was coaching that played for me at at Johnson State and I I was not good at all uh in in the X's and O's and I think the but I had an idea Of how to play and and how I wanted us to train. And and we somehow, AJ, in my first year, we beat we beat it's not even a school anymore, St. Joe's of of Vermont, Rutland. And Rob, Rob Montgomery, you'll never forget it, hit a moving ball to his right. He hit a dead ball great, even moving ball to his right. And that put us up two to two to one. And then we we somehow made playoffs and this school in southern Vermont called Green Mountain, I think beat us 6-0 in the first round. But that was a very defining moment that when when when everything was on the line and we'd only won four games that first season, but there was one that really, really mattered. And and I I put all my eggs in that basket that we were going to try to get to playoffs. And I, you know, we kind of trained all season with the idea of let's try to make playoffs. I don't think they did the year before. And it was it broke the span of like 40 years in a row or something. And and we did, and and it and and that that allowed me to know, okay, I could put up a plan together, do it for a week or so, and boy, we could come out uh positive. That was that was uh a big piece. And then I and then I I worked at Windridge Tennis and Sports Camps as the director of soccer, assistant director of camp, and I'd have all these kids from other countries uh come in and and to camp. And one big deal was we'd play other camps, and that was really important to the ownership of the camp that we were successful in. But we'd have these the these kids from Paris and uh uh and from you know, let's say seven different, seven or eight different countries and and metropolitan cities overseas, plus a group of kids from the United States, and it was to get them to play together. And I started thinking about soccer kind of the way uh basketball is kind of practiced in like patterns, if you will. And so, not that it was anything like uh groundbreaking or anything, but I started to learn how to train kids in a 4-4-2 in in patterns of play and developed like 17 different patterns, not for anything more than to just get the basics so these kids had an idea of how to play together. And I found that in a very short amount of time it worked, and that AJ, to be fair, is now all of a sudden I kind of had a system that I I could coach and I had a kind of a system of play that I could teach, and and that was like when the light bulb uh came off, and I really applied kind of the that that idea to to Stowe. Um and uh and it and it and it worked out all well. And those were really like big aha moments, like, oh, this is this is well, this could work. Like I think I'm on to something.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

Nice. Um couple more questions for you as we start to wrap this thing up. Um, so I I've got a son, he plays U12. Uh, what's the most surprising thing to me is when I go to practices and watch what happens, I see him doing a lot of the same, I see Clover doing a lot of the same drills that my son does. Like uh, you guys start to set up for something, like, oh, I know what's gonna happen here. Um and so I gotta ask you, like, what's what's the biggest difference between coaching? I I know you have uh a wide range of teams that you coach and stuff. What's the big difference between coaching, you know, Clover and a U-12 team? I mean, sometimes these guys screw around, they don't listen to you, and you gotta make them do sit-ups and push-ups and get back uh paying attention to what we're doing here. Um so uh on the surface, I'm sure I'm sure you know there's a lot of stuff, but sometimes it it looks like U-12. Guess kids are gonna be kids, guys are gonna be guys, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Yeah, you know, that's the as you were talking earlier, it's that fine line about being too tight and you know too loose, is is you still have to maintain that quality, but you know, uh there's only so many so many ways you can run a possession drill or you know, break the lines drill, and so you make it creative with restrictions and wins and points, but it's the same thing. I and you're you're right. I mean, the kids said the other day, coach, I saw your Clover guys do the Y passing. I'm like, it's just that good. That's what we're doing. And it kind of makes people have to communicate head up with limited touches. And where did I learn it? I learned it from PSG's, you know, the the professional team was using it and breaking it down in different variations. I figured if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us. Um, but no, there's it, what's the difference? Uh the 12-year-olds listen a little better, they don't chat when I'm talking. Maybe my language is a touch more colorful with the older guys. That's just to get their attention. Uh, but but no, it's it's it's that's the love of the game. It's still it's still somewhat the same. We're just asking for more efficiency and and uh uh I would say efficiency and in concentration from time to time. But what a great observation. It ain't much different, that's for certain.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Yeah, yeah. And I I really appreciate that you let me bring my son around every once in a while. You know, we we let him come by during school breaks and stuff like that, and and he's had a ball playing with the guys, he's had a ball watching the guys, and I've I've kind of tried to express to him like, hey man, they're doing the same exact drills you do. Like, I hope you I hope you're seeing that. I hope you're noticing this. Like you're you're building your skills now, and it's gonna be great skills later on. Um, because he he he loves the game and he he loves watching the guys, he loves hanging out with you and uh coming to the games and stuff. It's it's been a real family affair. Um to kind of wrap wrap things up, Brian. Um, is there anything that we didn't ask you that we should have?

SPEAKER_00 50:34

No, I mean I think I think the the most exciting thing is if this is our if this is where our base is in our first year, what's it gonna be like three, five, seven, ten, fifteen, twenty years from now? Yeah, I think that's the part for me is to is to be on the ground floor of this pathway for players. And you know, we're already starting to see our players as leading goal scorers, you know, within our conference. And and yeah, the colleges where kids are looking to transfer to or attend are starting to reach out. So everything that, you know, I think Chris Shane and Trey thought about in the beginning, it's all coming to fruition. This, this, this opportunity where how cool is it if I got the chance to play at that level? Holy cow, how how cool is it if I got a chance to play at this level? And that springboarded me to this other level and other opportunity. I mean, as Chris mentioned with with one of our players uh interested in coming on in the coaching staff. I mean, this this couldn't be in its holistic Vermont approach any cleaner. It's it's it's like the it's like one of the most pure uh the things uh that soccer's maybe ever had uh in the state. Has nothing really to do with money. Sure, we gotta pay our dues and our stuff like that and our our facility stuff, and we've gotta, we you know, we need to have nice uniforms and all that stuff, but this is so player-centric that that the uh knowing that there's going to be a women's team uh uh announced uh hopefully very soon and some other things are really setting up. I mean, I kind of wish I was a little younger. This really sets up players to have an opportunity in our own state to look at the semi-professional game in different stages is is unbelievable in this market. It's it it really is. It it rivals cities that have three times, four times as many people as our state has. So it's it's amazing to me to to to be a part of this excitement and and and be at the helm in its in its first season. And it's yes, it's I would say that's that's probably I again I just feel I feel blessed to be a part of it because this thing is is going to grow to who knows what.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

I'm gonna say the really cool thing is that we get to get these guys together to build these relationships because it is the future of the soccer community, right? Like some of these guys are gonna stay and they're gonna coach and they're gonna coach their kids and they're gonna have these relationships where maybe a guy from Rutland and a guy from Burlington didn't know each other at all, but they're gonna play each other next season and they're gonna say hello after a game and they're gonna start looking forward to being back in the team together and they're gonna build these relationships, or a guy's looking to transfer and there's another guy in the team that plays there, and that's part of the reason that he either does or doesn't make that decision based on that person's feedback about his experience. It's like it's all this value-added stuff by just you know, leaning into the fact that everybody's one degree of separation away from each other, and in a way that only Vermont can do this, right? We're the only state that's small enough to really, really be able to build these relationships for these guys in the best way.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

Absolutely. Well, so fun. I think we are just about at time, Brian. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been such a fun episode. I love talking to you uh on and off the pitch. So uh appreciate your time. And um thanks for being here. Is there anything that you want to kind of shout out, let people know to check out anything you're involved in outside of Vermont Clover?

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Uh Vermont United Soccer Academy is as strong as ever, uh in the Lemoyle County area, servicing uh uh kids from Harwood, kids from Up Helier now, uh kids from uh Mount Mansfield Academy. Um we're really excited to gain some more strength in our in our youth numbers, and we've got some programs we're going to announce this summer for the fall. Um, but just just really proud of our soccer state, and I can't thank you enough, Chris and AJ, for having me on.

SPEAKER_03 54:41

Awesome. Thank you, Brian. Uh, I want to remind our listeners if you enjoyed today's episode, and I'm sure you did, you gotta check out uh the podcast on YouTube as well to make sure you're watching the video version. Hit that subscribe button in uh YouTube and your podcatcher to make sure you catch all of our future episodes. We'll see you next time on the Pink and Green Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 55:02

We sure will have a blessed day.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

That's gonna do it for today's episode of the Pink and Green Podcast. A huge thank you to our guests for joining us and sharing their story. If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast and leave us a review. It helps more people discover the growing soccer community here in Vermont. You can follow Vermont Clover FC and the Pink and Green Podcast on social media for updates, match coverage, and behind-the-scenes content throughout the season. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. Until then, keep supporting local soccer and keep the game growing.